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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 4468955 times)

Lord Shonus

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24405 on: October 19, 2018, 02:34:28 pm »

Then why the opposition to condoms?

That's complicated, but it is also less common in the modern world than it appears to be. Outside of the Catholic Church, the main opposition is the belief that they are much less effective than they really are, and that they give a false sense of security - thus encouraging sexual behavior outside of a stable marriage.

Condoms also tend to get lumped in with abortion and genuinely controversial means of birth control such as the morning-after pill. Much like any other issue, people tend to lump everyone in with the super-extreme viewpoint, even when that is a minority.


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Rowanas

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24406 on: October 19, 2018, 02:36:02 pm »

Then why the opposition to condoms?

Go forth and multiply.
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Il Palazzo

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24407 on: October 19, 2018, 02:38:21 pm »

I don't know about your US Catholics, let alone Protestants, but in the Completely Entirely Secular Republic of Poland [TM] every priest teaching religion in school is quick to inform their hormone-infused pupils that sex is good and fun and useful! Just without condoms. And no homo. And in the vag only. And remember to marry afterwards.
All in the service of making more pure souls to keep the gaping maw of God satiated or fuel the forges of hell with the less pure ones.
(I think that's the reason?)
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24408 on: October 19, 2018, 02:40:20 pm »

***I sort of got ninja'd but here we go.

I have never found an intrinsic opposition to condoms as an object of contraception. Keep in mind I'm not talking about the nutso fundamentalist sects, I don't associate with those. In fact condoms should be seen as the best option from my understanding.

As an example, my old man was a preacher for most of my life and a 4-year graduate from a rather traditional seminary. He uh, found some aftermath of (wink wink nudge nudge) in my car as a late teen, and his response was first to make sure I knew that he did not approve of premarital sex for religious reasons, but also if I was he damn well expected that no grandkids would arrive yet and I best be taking steps to ensure it. He was quite respectful overall. I know the situation of actual children out of wedlock in my family has come up, and the response was initial and short-lived disappointment but also immediate widespread support of the expecting mother.

Quickedit: Now to be fair, my grandmother and matriarch of our rather expansive family raised 5 kids over 3 husbands in the 50's/60's. Something bad would happen to you if your response to the above was less than compassionate. That lady is tough as balls, she's a story unto herself. But I've only seen the hard aversion to sex/contraceptives in A: the catholic church, and B: hardcore fundies.

I guess my point is that there IS healthy views on sex within Christianity, but I do definitely acknowledge that in the past very UN-healthy views have reigned predominant. For my part i'm going to raise my kid to be wise about it while staying true to my (and of course my hope is that they will be his) beliefs, and not be afraid to engage in respectful dialogue on the subject.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 02:51:09 pm by Dunamisdeos »
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Trekkin

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24409 on: October 19, 2018, 02:51:35 pm »

But I've only seen the hard aversion to sex/contraceptives in A: the catholic church, and B: hardcore fundies.

I think you find more people opposed to official support for the use of contraceptives (in the form of free condoms and employer-mandated insurance funding IUDs and so forth) than opposed to contraception itself, possibly because they don't want to support other people doing things of what they disapprove. That can get oversimplified into "fundies don't like condoms" fairly readily.
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RedKing

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24410 on: October 19, 2018, 02:53:20 pm »

https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/oct/19/trump-greg-gianforte-guardian-reporter-assault

It's not really that surprising, honestly. With any luck, this marks the beginning of the transformation of American politics into a subdivision of the WWE, with politicians trading in their unassuming business suits for skin-tight leotards in intense primary colors. If you don't have a signature move that represents your family values, are you really even a patriot?
I'd like to run under the mantle of "General Disorder", with my signature move "The Conservaslam".
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MrRoboto75

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24411 on: October 19, 2018, 02:55:19 pm »

https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/oct/19/trump-greg-gianforte-guardian-reporter-assault

It's not really that surprising, honestly. With any luck, this marks the beginning of the transformation of American politics into a subdivision of the WWE, with politicians trading in their unassuming business suits for skin-tight leotards in intense primary colors. If you don't have a signature move that represents your family values, are you really even a patriot?
I'd like to run under the mantle of "General Disorder", with my signature move "The Conservaslam".

I'll take "The Ultimate Social Justice Warrior"

ooooo yeah brudder
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Loud Whispers

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24412 on: October 19, 2018, 02:58:59 pm »

AND THE REPUBLICAN FRONT-RUNNER COMES IN WITH THE SUPER-PAC SLAM, AND THE CHALLENGER GOES DOWN!!! BUT HE'S UP WITH TWO GRASSROOT HOOKS AND THE CROWD GOES WIIIIIIIIIIIILD

Dunamisdeos

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24413 on: October 19, 2018, 02:59:10 pm »

Wow what an ass that Trump guy is. I don't think Gianforte would even be on board with that. He apologized to the guy, pled guilty, and donated 50k to a free-press charity.

Quote from: From CNN about the incident itself
"My physical response to your legitimate question was unprofessional, unacceptable, and unlawful," Gianforte said in the letter.
"I made a mistake and humbly ask for your forgiveness."
Jacobs accepted the apology.
Jacobs was present and made a statement in the courtroom. Gianforte later asked if he could address Jacobs directly and apologized again.
"I just want to say I'm sorry and if and when you're ready, I look forward to sitting down with you in DC," he said.

AND THE REPUBLICAN FRONT-RUNNER COMES IN WITH THE SUPER-PAC SLAM, AND THE CHALLENGER GOES DOWN!!! BUT HE'S UP WITH TWO GRASSROOT HOOKS AND THE CROWD GOES WIIIIIIIIIIIILD

FFS I love this thread so much sometimes.
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FACT IV: SPEECHO THE TRUSTWORM IS YOUR FRIEND or BEHOLD: THE FRUIT ENGINE 3.0

redwallzyl

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24414 on: October 19, 2018, 04:00:34 pm »

Conservative is just something Republicans call themselves while pretending to be it.
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Il Palazzo

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24415 on: October 19, 2018, 04:05:22 pm »

AND THE REPUBLICAN FRONT-RUNNER COMES IN WITH THE SUPER-PAC SLAM, AND THE CHALLENGER GOES DOWN!!! BUT HE'S UP WITH TWO GRASSROOT HOOKS AND THE CROWD GOES WIIIIIIIIIIIILD
If one replaces republican with democrat, this describes pretty accurately the 2016 final fight between the Donkey Kongette and the Elephant Man.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24416 on: October 19, 2018, 04:48:01 pm »

AND THE REPUBLICAN FRONT-RUNNER COMES IN WITH THE SUPER-PAC SLAM, AND THE CHALLENGER GOES DOWN!!! BUT HE'S UP WITH TWO GRASSROOT HOOKS AND THE CROWD GOES WIIIIIIIIIIIILD
If one replaces republican with democrat, this describes pretty accurately the 2016 final fight between the Donkey Kongette and the Elephant Man.
"Now folks, people been talking a lotta bout the health of the DNC's long-time champ Helldog Clint Eastwood, I gotta say I was on the edge of my seat when she was knocked down by the Berninator's Bernie Blindsiders for an awful long time. The judges are saying nah, nah, it's all in the experience, where she's not completely dominating the ring she's still scoring higher on the poll cards than the Berninator, and I'm not gonna say nothing about the judges you never heard before - they're doin their jobs ok? But I'm not convinced that's enough. Yeah sure Helldog's had a lotta time under two-time Champion "THE ROCK" Obama, but when the 2016 American Extreme Championship rolls around, I tell ya, the DNC are gonna be wondering if the tradeoff in experience versus raw populist stamina was really worth it. Whoever the DNC picks is gonna be going up against El Teflon Orange AKA "THE WALL," who the audiences hate to love and love to hate, who's slaughtered the RNC National Grandslam effortlessly. My gut tells me it looks like the DNC needs someone with the resilience needed to weather those mean swing-state hits in the final bouts, not the experience needed to fight conventional fighters, cos THE WALL aint a conventional fighter - he's never even fought in the ring until 2015!!!
I tell ya Jerry, my money tells me they're gonna regret it when they lose the national title to a total amateur. God help us all, and God bless America"

PTTG??

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24417 on: October 19, 2018, 05:23:32 pm »

"The Time is Now" blares from the rafters.
GOOD LORD, THAT'S JOE BIDEN'S MUSIC!
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wierd

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24418 on: October 19, 2018, 05:44:03 pm »

That's one hell of a strawman, there.

Yes.  Yes it is.  That's what "Bombastic caricature" means in this context.  Over the top, not true to life, outright a parody.

As for childbirth being a punishment, revisit genesis.

Quote from: genesis 3:16
To the woman He said:
“I will sharply increase your pain in childbirth;
in pain you will bring forth children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you.”

So yes-- ouchie childbirth totally is, straight up, a divine rebuke for original sin disobedience. As is "the patriarchy". Enjoy.

As I said, I invoke the dread specter of Poe's Law.  It is IMPOSSIBLE to make a batshit off the wall extreme parody of this kind of thing, because at least SOME of the discussed demographic *WILL INDEED* hold that view.

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Lord Shonus

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #24419 on: October 19, 2018, 05:56:58 pm »

That's one hell of a strawman, there.

Yes.  Yes it is.  That's what "Bombastic caricature" means in this context.  Over the top, not true to life, outright a parody.



I'd put "bombastic caricature" at several plausibility steps above "strawman", but I see what you're getting at.


The fact that I've seen lots of people insist in complete seriousness that anybody who opposes abortion in any way up to an including the day before birth automatically thinks exactly that way colored my reaction quite a bit.
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