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[EnigmaticHat]

Here's a proposition: identity politics = bad. No matter what type.
Y/N?

If there's anything the last 2 years has taught me, racism/sexism/homophobia ARE identity politics, its just that they're older so people are used to them.  Not talking about things doesn't make them go away.

[Cathar]

Here's a proposition: identity politics = bad. No matter what type.
Y/N?

Not especially. Ethnicities are made of people who travel, and who come in contact with each other. Ignoring differences in cultures can lead to people not understanding phenomenons like tribalism manifesting into stuff like cultural ghettoisation. It shouldn't be a taboo topic, but people should shed the ideology and work with the fact rather than trying to twist them to fit a preconceived worldview.
Yeah culture clash. No ethno states are the answer to absolutely nothing. Yes diversity is overall a good thing because the more diverse we are, the more synergies are possible. No throwing different people with different views of the world in the box and expecting them to mix harmoniously without any public effort is bound to fail. IMHO.

Gender identity is something completely different. Men and women has always been together, even before we have been humans. It's not like we discover we exist and have to learn to cohabitate, we have been doing that since our aquatic ancestry. With that said, gender dynamics are affected by the transformation of our environment, and understanding how it works can help us evolve as a specy.

I am always interested in *intelligent and sensible* discourse on gender and race. I know some are possible, I've heard some, but between the alt right "ethno state solution" and the third wavers "let's use a point system to see who is the most oppressed" crying at the top of their lungs until we can only hear mass hysteria, sensible adress to those topics are hard to come by.

Edit : And yeah I don't blame people wanting to stay away from that poisoned well alltogether

[scriver]

Huh.  I'm torn between wanting to respect what the descendants polled for, and not wanting to call the people of this continent Indians.

But I still get annoyed at calling the results of Spanish... colonization... "Latin"as so I'm probably in the minority.

Personally I think Native Americans is especially descriptive, and neutral.  And I'd much rather respect any individual's tribal identity, given the opportunity.

Latin is fine for me. What really jimmies my rustles are "hispanic".

[Dunamisdeos]

Yeah I sort of agree with Cathar, but the problem is that it identity politics are exploitable. Like, really exploitable.

I feel like the concept has been redefined during the more recent elections. Identity politics is supposed to be a tendency for a person of specific background to vote a certain way, which is perfectly understandable. Now the term is often used to describe how a person is socially expected to build their personal identity around a political idea or party, and if they don't make that the basis of their self then they deserve punishment.

I think our beliefs should shape our political affiliation and voting patterns, not the other way around.

But most importantly: This conversation about ethnic pseudo-insults is the funniest thing I've read all week. Also, I'll bite, I am genuinely interested as to why Hispanic is incorrect, doesn't it just refer to "descendants of Spanish-speaking folks".

[Ghills]

Any kind of political affiliation is exploitable and harmful, once people put that affiliation above their character & beliefs. 

But there is value in a candidate who can say 'I know what you've gone through because I'm like you went through the same things'.   It's really sad how that's been twisted into the current circular firing squad locked in echo chambers.

We've had amazingly controversial times before though. It can't last forever.

[Dunamisdeos]

Any kind of political affiliation is exploitable and harmful, once people put that affiliation above their character & beliefs. 

But there is value in a candidate who can say 'I know what you've gone through because I'm like you went through the same things'.   It's really sad how that's been twisted into the current circular firing squad locked in echo chambers.

We've had amazingly controversial times before though. It can't last forever.

Agreed, on all points.

[scriver]

But most importantly: This conversation about ethnic pseudo-insults is the funniest thing I've read all week. Also, I'll bite, I am genuinely interested as to why Hispanic is incorrect, doesn't it just refer to "descendants of Spanish-speaking folks".

Well yes, but Hispania is the peninsula the Spaniards derive their name from. It's on the other side of the world! It makes no sense!

[Dunamisdeos]

But most importantly: This conversation about ethnic pseudo-insults is the funniest thing I've read all week. Also, I'll bite, I am genuinely interested as to why Hispanic is incorrect, doesn't it just refer to "descendants of Spanish-speaking folks".

Well yes, but Hispania is the peninsula the Spaniards derive their name from. It's on the other side of the world! It makes no sense!

Oh, gotcha! So it's an illogical thing and not an insensitive thing. That makes sense.

[Hanslanda]

I guess I'm going to clarify further.
 Every time I see the question, "How many genders are there?" I pack up and run because it never seems to end with anyone acknowledging that good points were made and their eyes were opened. You get a bunch of right wing "2"s and a bunch of left wing other answers and then a shitpile of useless bickering.

I'm not endorsing or arguing either or. I'm pointing out that it's a toxic conversation I don't want to be part of. That was all.

[redwallzyl]

I guess I'm going to clarify further.
 Every time I see the question, "How many genders are there?" I pack up and run because it never seems to end with anyone acknowledging that good points were made and their eyes were opened. You get a bunch of right wing "2"s and a bunch of left wing other answers and then a shitpile of useless bickering.

I'm not endorsing or arguing either or. I'm pointing out that it's a toxic conversation I don't want to be part of. That was all.

That is because such things are usually asked in order to not get a nuanced answer but to serve an agenda.

[smjjames]

I guess I'm going to clarify further.
 Every time I see the question, "How many genders are there?" I pack up and run because it never seems to end with anyone acknowledging that good points were made and their eyes were opened. You get a bunch of right wing "2"s and a bunch of left wing other answers and then a shitpile of useless bickering.

I'm not endorsing or arguing either or. I'm pointing out that it's a toxic conversation I don't want to be part of. That was all.

The answer is 57,000*......

... for fungi.

*Somewhere around there...

In all seriousness, I don't think you can put a number on gender (identity), it seems more like a spectrum than anything. Even 'spectrum' might be oversimplifying it though.

Still, I get your point on how identity politics can be toxic.

[Loud Whispers]

tbh there is one human gender the human bean

[Dunamisdeos]

But what kind of bean? There are only so many beans. I have faith that the Ameripol thread can get into a fight about defining the legume gender spectrum.

EDIT: Can we at least agree that Lima Beans are right out?

[Cathar]

#notallbeans

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(Also that conversation on gender is only toxic because no one seem to know that "gender fluidity" doesn't means there are more than two genders so we argue for or against something that was never seriously defended, and as a post-modernist this is a bit frustrating, but I also understand it's a tired topic so I won't push that)

[hector13]

I think part of the issue is people confusing the term “gender” with the term “sex”.