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[Max™]

I love women, I hate white men, I favor taking power from old white racist pieces of shit by violence and blood, I'd never call myself a feminist, I agree with them on many things, they disagree with me on many things.

It seems clear that efforts to resolve Climate Change are not going to be made voluntarily on the scale that is needed. The only viable option for saving the world from a very real threat may be a military purge of all factions that continue contributing to the problem at unacceptable levels. Could Global Warming finally start WWIII? And if it did, which side would we be on?

At least the arctic death spiral seems to have unspiraled, though nobody probably saw news about the minimum recently since it wasn't a record low this year, ah well, maybe next year right!

[Rolan7]

I get super annoyed by women on a regular basis but I'm definitely a feminist.  Third Wave Feminism is an unfortunate byproduct of the Feminist movement applied to young minds and the rapid information age, it doesn't deserve the name.  The name belongs to a lasting movement for gender equality.  EQUALITY.

[Lord Shonus]

A lot of the complaints about "Political Correctness" seem to stem from the Euphemism Treadmill. Not only can it seem like you have to learn a new descriptive term for some groups every few years, there's also the way it seems like a lot of genuinely useful words along with it (for example, the word "retard" is not just a derogatory term for people with abnormal mental development, but is also an extremely useful word meaning "to slow down", which is the origin of the derogatory usage in the first place), compounding the problem.


There's also the problem that a lot of it appears to be driven by people outside the groups in question acting on that group's behalf, rather than the group itself objecting. One of the more famous examples is "Native American" - while "American Indian" is often called a racist term, the people in that group generally prefer it as a collective term (It is usually better to refer to an individual by their tribe, but if you have a group with members from different tribes a collective term is needed), with  only around 30% preferring "Native American."

[Reelya]

One of the more famous examples is "Native American" - while "American Indian" is often called a racist term, the people in that group generally prefer it as a collective term (It is usually better to refer to an individual by their tribe, but if you have a group with members from different tribes a collective term is needed), with  only around 30% preferring "Native American."

I can see that. "American" after all is the invader's word for the place. So calling them "native American" isn't really any better. At least "Indian" even if it has incorrect roots is a unique identifier, and "the natives" isn't a word without racist connotations of inferiority anyway.

EDIT: another similar example is the word "Welsh". To give you an idea of how thoroughly they were dominated, "Welsh" was Anglo-Saxon for "foreigner", despite the Welsh basically being the original inhabitants of the whole of Britain.

[smjjames]

However, unlike the Welsh, Native Americans aren't one single cohesive culture, there are a great many cultures and languages. Probably the best word to use would be one from any of the multitude of languages to describe people like themselves who have lived in the Americas for millenia.

Also, the Welsh people still have a name for themselves, so, it's not complete domination, it's just how the english word ended up.

Also2, the ancestral word 'walhaz' was used to describe those who spoke Roman Latin or Celtic speaking peoples or those in the Roman Empire. I'll take your word for it that it meant 'foriegner' in Anglo-Saxon, but it's etymology is MUCH deeper than that.

[Reelya]

Whether it was specific to Romans and Celts isn't really the issue, it was a Germanic word for "not-us". The specifics of the etymology are kind of moot here since it's someone else's word that was imposed on the Welsh.

[Lord Shonus]

However, unlike the Welsh, Native Americans aren't one single cohesive culture, there are a great many cultures and languages. Probably the best word to use would be one from any of the multitude of languages to describe people like themselves who have lived in the Americas for millenia.

Or you could just ask them what they want to be called, and abide by their decisions instead of patting them on the head and insisting that you know what is best.

[smjjames]

However, unlike the Welsh, Native Americans aren't one single cohesive culture, there are a great many cultures and languages. Probably the best word to use would be one from any of the multitude of languages to describe people like themselves who have lived in the Americas for millenia.

Or you could just ask them what they want to be called, and abide by their decisions instead of patting them on the head and insisting that you know what is best.

I was just saying that the most accurate one for the whole of peoples that make up 'Native American' would be to use from their languages, but yes, it varies from person to person.

[Reelya]

Trump throws candy at other world leaders?

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/donald-trump-gave-angela-merkel-starbursts-at-the-g7-summit-2018-6?r=US&IR=T

Appearing on “CBS This Morning” on Wednesday, Eurasia Group President Ian Bremmer described another tense interaction between Trump and German Chancellor Angela Merkel, with whom Trump has a rocky diplomatic relationship.

Bremmer said that at the end of the summit, Merkel and Trudeau were pressing Trump to sign the joint communiqué, a statement expressing common diplomatic goals and traditionally signed by all parties at G7 summits.

“Trump was sitting there with his arms crossed, clearly not liking the fact that he felt like they were ganging up on him. He eventually agreed; he said OK, he’ll sign it,” Bremmer said. “At that point, he stood up, he put his hand in his pocket – his suit jacket pocket – and he took two Starburst candies out, threw them on the table, and said to Merkel: ‘Here, Angela. Don’t say I never give you anything.'”

[Lord Shonus]

However, unlike the Welsh, Native Americans aren't one single cohesive culture, there are a great many cultures and languages. Probably the best word to use would be one from any of the multitude of languages to describe people like themselves who have lived in the Americas for millenia.

Or you could just ask them what they want to be called, and abide by their decisions instead of patting them on the head and insisting that you know what is best.

I was just saying that the most accurate one for the whole of peoples that make up 'Native American' would be to use from their languages, but yes, it varies from person to person.

First off, if that came up as snarky it wasn't aimed at you, your comment just gave me the perfect opportunity to expand on my original point.

The native languages don't have a word for "all of the people on this land, as opposed to the ones from across the sea", as far as I know. Referring to an individual by their tribe is preferred, and using their own language instead of that assigned by somebody else is a good principle, which (for example) is why the Navajo now ask to be called the Dineh. You need some collective term for all of them, and the majority (on reservations, avoiding the self-sampling bias) polled prefer some variety of "American Indian" to "Native American", or don't care.



There's a lot of cases like this - such as assuming two people that grew up side by side have fundamentally different cultures because one is white and one is black - but those are much too likely to create nasty arguments.

[Rolan7]

Huh.  I'm torn between wanting to respect what the descendants polled for, and not wanting to call the people of this continent Indians.

But I still get annoyed at calling the results of Spanish... colonization... "Latin"as so I'm probably in the minority.

Personally I think Native Americans is especially descriptive, and neutral.  And I'd much rather respect any individual's tribal identity, given the opportunity.

[Reelya]

Indian isn't actually too bad. Consider the word "indigenous" which also means native, and stems from the Latin "indigena".

[smjjames]

Thats... not new I don't think? I heard a rumor about something like that from the G7. fakeedit: And the story itself is from June.

If it really was an attempt at humor or sarcasm, not surprised as he REALLY doesn't do humor that well.

@lordshonus: Yeah, agreeing on a term someone else used (that isn't derogatory, that is) for the collective whole is better than attempting to find one for each language and agree on one. There are at least 28 extant indingenous language families, not counting ones that have been revived in recent years or decades.

Indian isn't actually too bad. Consider the word "indigenous" which also means native, and stems from the Latin "indigena".

The problem comes from the fact that there is a country called India and it got applied because Columbus thought he was in the indies. It also has a bit of a negative connotation when talking about Native Americans, but even that varies from person to person.

[Egan_BW]

Indian isn't actually too bad. Consider the word "indigenous" which also means native, and stems from the Latin "indigena".

So our choice is between native (aka indigenous) american and american indigenous and we're trying to figure out which is less offensive. Brilliant.
If maybe a third of american indians prefer the name "native american", then it doesn't really seem like a bad term. I'd prefer it because India is an actual country and people from there are indians, but really either term seems okay? Guess I use whichever comes to mind first or flows better, and maybe hedge my bets a little by using native american around white people and american indian around american indians and people I know know that particular statistic about amerindians preferring the term american indian.

[Rolan7]

"Indigenous Americans" is also fine to me, but I guess I default to "Native Americans" because I consider it to be the same meaning.

However, I am actually curious as to what actual First Nation or original residents think about that.