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[Trekkin]

I've always rejected the idea that "They" are not part of the fabric of America. For better or worse, they are. You can't get rid of them, you can only marginalize them for so long, and whether you like it or not, they're part of every debate in this country. So rather than shaming them for our own entertainment and gratification, giving them the space to come to a more reasonable place is the only way IMO that you let them walk back from radicalism. Mocking them just increases the likelihood that they will double down on the stupid, because "Fuck Democrats."

Say we give them the chance to walk back. How likely are they to take it?

[Frumple]

Been giving them space for decades, nenj. Ain't been working too hot, really. Younger people have been changing, but only so much the rest.

Couldn't really say if it's the best way to go, but stopping that and lettin' folks either own up to their shit or fuck off definitely seems more viable, these days. Majority-minority in my lifetime~

[PTTG??]

What proportion of the population are we talking about here? Is all of Trump's 41% approval made up of cultists?

[smjjames]

I've always rejected the idea that "They" are not part of the fabric of America. For better or worse, they are. You can't get rid of them, you can only marginalize them for so long, and whether you like it or not, they're part of every debate in this country. So rather than shaming them for our own entertainment and gratification, giving them the space to come to a more reasonable place is the only way IMO that you let them walk back from radicalism. Mocking them just increases the likelihood that they will double down on the stupid, because "Fuck Democrats."

Say we give them the chance to walk back. How likely are they to take it?

Assuming we're talking about the majority of Republicans and not the hardcore that would never walk back anyway, it's going to vary from person to person. The grassroots seem to be doing something right since we've seen huge increases in Dem turnout over the primaries and specials. We won't get a full picture of how many Republicans are defecting to the Democrats or just staying home until the Midterms.

Anyways, the DNC seems to have learned at least one lession, they called the FBI almost immediately this time after detecting an attempt on their voter database..

I wonder when the RNC will get attacked?

[nenjin]

I've always rejected the idea that "They" are not part of the fabric of America. For better or worse, they are. You can't get rid of them, you can only marginalize them for so long, and whether you like it or not, they're part of every debate in this country. So rather than shaming them for our own entertainment and gratification, giving them the space to come to a more reasonable place is the only way IMO that you let them walk back from radicalism. Mocking them just increases the likelihood that they will double down on the stupid, because "Fuck Democrats."

Say we give them the chance to walk back. How likely are they to take it?

If they think it was their own idea? Decent, I believe.

Been giving them space for decades, nenj.

You're never going to do anything about the hardcore racists, anti-government folks. They've been here since the beginning.

Again, it's the slightly more well meaning and malleable people that I want to give a chance to walk back from the edge of "fuck everything, forever." I hate to put it like this, but everyone makes mistakes. Everyone at some point will follow a bad leader. If there's a shred of decency in them, they're already feeling somewhat bad about that. Telling them "hahah, you fucking moron you backed a crook hahaha we told you hahah where's your fuckin hat now mate hahahah" to me just increases the chances they will continue to be wrong out of spite, or vote for the next bad idea when it comes along, when they go "remember when the dems laughed at you over Trump? Fuck those guys, vote me for me."

[Kagus]

I've always rejected the idea that "They" are not part of the fabric of America. For better or worse, they are. You can't get rid of them, you can only marginalize them for so long, and whether you like it or not, they're part of every debate in this country. So rather than shaming them for our own entertainment and gratification, giving them the space to come to a more reasonable place is the only way IMO that you let them walk back from radicalism. Mocking them just increases the likelihood that they will double down on the stupid, because "Fuck Democrats."

Say we give them the chance to walk back. How likely are they to take it?

If they think it was their own idea? Decent, I believe.

Bonus points if they don't feel like they're going to A) Get mocked or chided for what they did/thought/were associated with before, and B) Don't get attacked for not coming "far enough" over the line.

It's a gradual process, and it takes openness and understanding. Give a person reason to feel defensive, they're gonna build a bigger wall.

[nenjin]

At the end of the day it's about seeing people as actual people, despite their politics making them seem like a caricature begging to be taken down a peg.

Granted that's not easy when some of them demonstrably don't view other people as actual people. But no one ever said the high road was easy. If it was easy, we'd all be good people.

[Dunamisdeos]

Will someone come down to my level for a moment and advise why this makes it more likely we can impeach Trump? Noone has admitted or been convicted of anything that shows he is personally culpable, correct?

I mean we have more proof on record that he's a slimeball, but we didn't really need that. We're going to need a bigger filing cabinet for that soon.

[Telgin]

I think it stems from Cohen saying he had things on Trump that he was willing to tell Mueller.  We know absolutely nothing about what any of that is, but it could be more about the Trump Tower meeting that could lead to something that could lead to something else that could lead to impeachment.  If the Democrats retake enough of Congress, anyway, since it won't happen as long as it's controlled by Republicans.

[Frumple]

Cohen's also pled guilty in a way that conspiracy charges pretty necessarily follow, far as I've been able to parse, so far. Unless there's some other political candidate he broke campaign law at the direction of, or cohen was basically slitting his own throat by lying under oath, there's at-minimum one crime trump's now cleanly on the hook for.

Now, republican congresscritters being the immoral shitbags they are, that might not necessarily increase the near-future chances of impeachment, but it's another bit of ammo for both that and the midterms. On top of everything else falling out from the last few days. Every little bit helps.

[smjjames]

Well, for one, there is the implication that Cohen made that Trump personally directed him to commit a crime, and it has nothing to do with the Mueller probe which would make it look less political than connecting it to the Mueller probe would be.

I wouldn't say it makes it more likely, there are plenty of reasons they can use already, but being able to connect Trump to an actual crime does give them a bit of a political escape route.

Theres still the second Manafort trial (unless Manafort caves before that), however many shoes left to drop from the Mueller probe, and the Mueller probe report itself (they'd better make it public, I think I've read that Mueller intends and wants to make it public when he does release it). Cohen's lawyer has also hinted that Cohen has stuff that Mueller would be interested in and has said that Cohen would be willing to talk to Congress without immunity.

So, there is so much more still left to drop.

I think it stems from Cohen saying he had things on Trump that he was willing to tell Mueller.  We know absolutely nothing about what any of that is, but it could be more about the Trump Tower meeting that could lead to something that could lead to something else that could lead to impeachment.  If the Democrats retake enough of Congress, anyway, since it won't happen as long as it's controlled by Republicans.

Somewhat ninja'd. Good point on retaking Congress because even if the Democrats somehow manage to get into the majority in the Senate, they'd still have to get 2/3ds vote in the Senate, which means convincing some Republicans.

[Kagus]

I mean we have more proof on record that he's a slimeball, but we didn't really need that. We're going to need a bigger filing cabinet for that soon.

The trick is to just keep doing massive amounts of horrible shit, and keep raising the bar of horribleness very slowly. That way, everyone gets blinded by the fog of poolitics and then the high treason just gets filed away as "But that's not much worse than the twenty other atrocities that didn't get him impeached last week!".

[sluissa]

I think it stems from Cohen saying he had things on Trump that he was willing to tell Mueller.  We know absolutely nothing about what any of that is, but it could be more about the Trump Tower meeting that could lead to something that could lead to something else that could lead to impeachment.  If the Democrats retake enough of Congress, anyway, since it won't happen as long as it's controlled by Republicans.

Somewhat ninja'd. Good point on retaking Congress because even if the Democrats somehow manage to get into the majority in the Senate, they'd still have to get 2/3ds vote in the Senate, which means convincing some Republicans.

I imagine if we see a bunch of congressional republicans that are overtly pro-trump get stomped this election, they may see the light and be willing to step over the line. Keeping Pence might be enough of a consolation prize.

That's all speculative until the election actually happens though.

[smjjames]

Unless Pence gets implicated somehow, he was head of the transition team after all, if anything happened there, he had to have known about it. So far, the worst* thing he's done is made some poor choices.

*Yes, I'm aware of his stance towards LGBT and his actions while Indiana Governor, I'm talking about his role in the Trump adminstration.

[Hanslanda]

Got reminded how outnumbered I am as a liberal atheist today. Three vendors were bitching about, "Some got damt communist snowflake faggots tore down annuder 100 year old statue yesserday. Fuckin sunsabitches."

Their words. Not mine.