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[Trekkin]

E: Though yeah, it was either trump or rudy or both that claimed trump can pardon himself. The claim is utter bullshit and whoever claimed it was talking out their ass.

This is important to remember: Giuliani is Trump's new favorite lawyer because he says things that get Scott Pruitt out of the news, and so Giuliani, with no real future outside of Trump's orbit, has every reason to keep spewing inflammatory nonsense that reaffirms Trump's lunacy. This has been true before, but the adults in the room have never been more exhausted than they are now, so this time there's nobody with the will to stop it.

[UristMcChladni]

The president could be subpoenaed, but not indicted. They are, as far as the DOJ is concerned, barred from being prosecuted. Any evidence of a crime by a sitting president would have to be referred to congress.

The weird thing about the preemptive pardon you're talking about is it can only be done after commission of the crime. So you can't pardon a crime that hasn't happened yet. So for him to preemptively pardon, he has to acknowledge awareness of criminal activity prior to any legal action is taken on the subject. Pretty bad look for him, and would likely lead to impeachment.

[Egan_BW]

I say we just move the decimal point in our currency system two spaces left. So what used to be a dollar is now called a penny and comes on a little coin, and what used to be $100 bills are just called one dollar.
Yes, that means that the largest coin, the quarter, will be worth what is now $25.

[Rolan7]

It would save the dying video arcade industry!

[Wolfhunter107]

You literally cannot trust our police/security forces with even pepper spray.

Well, pepper spray results in fewer fatalities than batons and fists.

This is a valid point.

I know I'm a bit late with this, but when I was in high school we had the school resource officer come into one of my classes to give a short talk, and she said that they (the local cops) actually preferred not to use batons unless they absolutely had to. I don't remember why, but I think the reason she gave had something to do with the batons destroying evidence or breaking bones or something similar.

[Baffler]

It's because it's hard as shit to disable someone by literally beating them into submission while also not doing damage that would get a lawsuit, negative press, or most likely both. And that's not just broken bones, even some bruising can be enough to seriously compromise a case. It also puts the officer at a very large risk of just being overpowered or injured. A beat cop (or anyone in a physical job) can't exactly go to work with a cast or brace.

[Dunamisdeos]

I suppose it does make sense that if the baton doesn't work on a specific angry psycho you'll only find out when he turns around and starts beating the tar out of you.

Also I suppose a tool used for subduing a person should not generally cause extremely debilitating injuries such as broken bones. Sort of defeats the purpose of using a baton instead of, say, a baseball bat.

[Trekkin]

It should also be pointed out that many of the other less lethal options available to police vary widely in effectiveness and lethality in ways not always readily apparent a priori. There are, for example, people who are not incapacitated by tasers, laying aside the possibility of sufficiently thick clothing simply blocking the electrodes from making contact. There are also people for whom it will be lethal. Pepper spray has similar if less pronounced issues, and an officer for whom their use is an urgent question cannot tell into which group a particular person will fall.

Batons share a somewhat more pervasive problem with most of these: criminals so enmeshed in stupid, pointless machismo that their crippling inferiority complex won't let them see any threat short of many guns as anything but a challenge. After all, it's not like it could kill them, right? They don't see beyond one weapon held by one guy who, if they squint, looks kind of like everybody who ever hurt them and who they've since spent endless hours training until they're sure they can take, and so they do something violent and thoroughly stupid, and their equally macho friends use them as an example in pointlessly aggressive arguments about stopping power and the cycle continues.

So there are very good reasons not to champion more widespread use of less lethal options, including the truncheon. Not only can the officer not know what they'll do to any given person, but they can induce people to find out.

[Bumber]

What about rubber bullets / bean bag rounds? Are they more risky point-blank?

[Egan_BW]

tower shields tho

[Trekkin]

What about rubber bullets / bean bag rounds? Are they more risky point-blank?

As I recall, they're somewhat less predictable by virtue of deforming in flight (by design), to say nothing of how variable their effects can be depending on where exactly was hit.

[wierd]

Also used indiscriminately, due to "non-lethal", resulting in mass injuries when misused.

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/non-lethal-police-weapons-like-tear-gas-rubber-bullets-cause-severe-injury-and-death-study

[scriver]

I say we go back to my grandfather-father's policing days and bring back the sabre!

[Kagus]

That's the thing, I feel like the less-lethal alternatives available today are simply not up to snuff regarding their reliability in neutralizing an immediate threat, and their safety of use.

Tasers, particularly pistol tasers with the electrodes fired over range, are horribly unreliable when you start getting down to brass tacks. It wouldn't surprise me if their main use was just through the reputation of electroshock weapons, as a deterrent for those who don't want to be on the receiving end of an actually successful strike.

Pepper spray has its own problems, such as making accuracy, making sure the wind won't fuck you up, and hoping that the other guy isn't wearing a mask. Or, heck, even just some goggles to take the main bite out of it. Not to mention the logistical issues of making sure the pressurized contents are all in prime condition, at all times, without having to use up supplies by testing them...

Rubber bullets and bean bag slugs can be effective and are less prone to people simply being immune (even a drugged up looney tune will at least get slowed down/pushed back by the force, despite potentially not feeling anything), and they're only slightly prone to malfunction, but they're just not really safe to use. There are numerous cases of severe and even fatal injuries caused by getting a "less-lethal" projectile in the wrong place.


Personally though, I feel that this is a call to make better less-lethal options, rather than to use more traditional firearms. Remember that lethal guns have had an incredible amount of time and money put into refining and perfecting their function, while the less killy alternatives didn't get nearly as much love or government funding.

[Draignean]

Just equip all police with PHASRs, all buildings with ADS emitters, and equip police vehicles with PEP turrets mounted along with their lights.

Expensive, but it's the only way we'll become cyberpunk.