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[Starver]

So honest question: How dead is the American steel industry and if dead, what can be done to fix it?

It's a strategic industry. No sane country would just let those die off.

*cough*Thatcher*cough*

[redwallzyl]

So honest question: How dead is the American steel industry and if dead, what can be done to fix it?

It's a strategic industry. No sane country would just let those die off.

*cough*Thatcher*cough*

Well what else would you expect of a arch neoliberal.

[misko27]

I'm wondering if Trump has just been playing too much Victoria 2 lately. Steel, coal, and high tariffs?

If Trump is playing Vic2, he should know that liquor factories are the way to go.

Not an economist(in fact I dropped out of the only economy class I ever took on the first day.) but doesn't it seem like most developed economies would prefer to be importing the raw materials for things and exporting produced goods?

Speaking of Victoria Economics... You've just accurately described the 19th century (and possibly the 18th and as well) economic case for imperialism and colonialism. Conquer resources militarily and diplomatically, extract there and trade to the metropole, metropole refines and sells it back.

Of course, things are somewhat more complicated than that now... For a variety of reasons.

[Starver]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I spent waaaay too much time looking at that picture.

Or too little.

[andrea]

if he is basing this on Victoria politics, doesn't he know that you should jack up tariffs all the way only when tariff efficiency is low? later, when tariffs are 100% efficient, it is better to have low (yet positive) tariffs to allow your pops and your industry to acquire stuff more easily.

[redwallzyl]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I spent waaaay too much time looking at that picture.

Or too little.

All hail the mighty Bagger.

[SalmonGod]

That is a fascinating story actually, and can I say how sad it is that the Greatest are dying off a little too late to avoid having to watch their grandkids (and in many cases kids) do their best to fuck everyone over by implementing a cultural stasis centered on the 1950's?

I can't feel sympathy for the Greatests.  Their prime years were the same that saw a U.S. culture most blatantly obsessed with world domination, and also presided over the most domestically abusive government programs (human experimentation, anyone?).  They broke unionization, set up most of today's megacorporations, spearheaded the trend towards toxic outsourcing practices, etc.  Fighting WW2 does not absolve them of everything.  They may not have been the ones that initiated all of these things, but they're the ones who did all the grunt work that set us on course to the problems that are exploding in our faces today.

[redwallzyl]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/02/business/europe-steel-tariffs-trump.html

There might be tariffs on motorcycles (Harley-Davidson), bourbon whiskey and blue jeans. Striking at the heart of America. The trade war is beginning.

[Max™]

That is a fascinating story actually, and can I say how sad it is that the Greatest are dying off a little too late to avoid having to watch their grandkids (and in many cases kids) do their best to fuck everyone over by implementing a cultural stasis centered on the 1950's?

I can't feel sympathy for the Greatests.  Their prime years were the same that saw a U.S. culture most blatantly obsessed with world domination, and also presided over the most domestically abusive government programs (human experimentation, anyone?).  They broke unionization, set up most of today's megacorporations, spearheaded the trend towards toxic outsourcing practices, etc.  Fighting WW2 does not absolve them of everything.  They may not have been the ones that initiated all of these things, but they're the ones who did all the grunt work that set us on course to the problems that are exploding in our faces today.

Most of those trends were in place in the Gilded Age and got shoved out of the way by all that fuss over in Europe until enough people forgot what it was like before the New Deal and thought it sounded fun.

[SalmonGod]

That is a fascinating story actually, and can I say how sad it is that the Greatest are dying off a little too late to avoid having to watch their grandkids (and in many cases kids) do their best to fuck everyone over by implementing a cultural stasis centered on the 1950's?

I can't feel sympathy for the Greatests.  Their prime years were the same that saw a U.S. culture most blatantly obsessed with world domination, and also presided over the most domestically abusive government programs (human experimentation, anyone?).  They broke unionization, set up most of today's megacorporations, spearheaded the trend towards toxic outsourcing practices, etc.  Fighting WW2 does not absolve them of everything.  They may not have been the ones that initiated all of these things, but they're the ones who did all the grunt work that set us on course to the problems that are exploding in our faces today.

Most of those trends were in place in the Gilded Age and got shoved out of the way by all that fuss over in Europe until enough people forgot what it was like before the New Deal and thought it sounded fun.

They were in place before, but there was actual pushback against them.  People literally fought for labor rights during the Gilded Age, and they made progress that we still take for granted today.  But the Greatests used the combination of Cold War paranoia, coincidental post-war prosperity, and various new abusable state apparatus to eliminate any will from the populace to maintain that struggle.  Not a good legacy in my book.

[redwallzyl]

That is a fascinating story actually, and can I say how sad it is that the Greatest are dying off a little too late to avoid having to watch their grandkids (and in many cases kids) do their best to fuck everyone over by implementing a cultural stasis centered on the 1950's?

I can't feel sympathy for the Greatests.  Their prime years were the same that saw a U.S. culture most blatantly obsessed with world domination, and also presided over the most domestically abusive government programs (human experimentation, anyone?).  They broke unionization, set up most of today's megacorporations, spearheaded the trend towards toxic outsourcing practices, etc.  Fighting WW2 does not absolve them of everything.  They may not have been the ones that initiated all of these things, but they're the ones who did all the grunt work that set us on course to the problems that are exploding in our faces today.

Most of those trends were in place in the Gilded Age and got shoved out of the way by all that fuss over in Europe until enough people forgot what it was like before the New Deal and thought it sounded fun.

They were in place before, but there was actual pushback against them.  People literally fought for labor rights during the Gilded Age, and they made progress that we still take for granted today.  But the Greatests used the combination of Cold War paranoia, coincidental post-war prosperity, and various new abusable state apparatus to eliminate any will from the populace to maintain that struggle.  Not a good legacy in my book.

It is disturbing how much people seem to have lost the will to fight for themselves. So many just bow down unthinking to the alter of corporate control.

[McTraveller]

I'm more and more convinced that all world leaders are simply toddlers.  "We don't like what you're doing, so we're going to do it back to you just MORE!  And call you names too!"

It's also funny (in the sad sense, not the amusing sense) that that article talks about adding tariffs to luxury goods like motorcycles and bourbon in response to an action on commodity pricing that is only the way it is because of pretty obviously disparate environments in terms of how  those commodities are produced in different countries.

[nenjin]

If they really wanted to hit us where it hurts, they'd put tariffs on movies and electronic entertainment. I feel like that's way more relevant to what American produces than steel, booze and pants.

Honestly those items strike me as someone's out-dated ideas about what represents American production these days.

[PTTG??]

Ugh restoring free trade after Trump is going to be be a nightmare. Nobody is going to trust the US again....

[EnigmaticHat]

I think everyone's going to be a little shook, in and out of the USA.  We've all gotten a reminder that the US can shift course wildly depending on elections.*

Our NATO allies stuck with us through Vietnam and Iraq.  The difference I see here is that neither of those things was specifically targeted at them.  Whereas Trump has been sabre rattling at our allies and cozying up with our enemies.

In a way I think the worldwide media sensation of the Trump presidency could work in our favor.  Back in the Bush days I would anecdotally hear about how people in other countries resented us or thought we were a joke**.  Nowadays I hear about how people worldwide hate Trump specifically.  So that's... better?  I really do feel that people in e.g. Mexico understand that its not the entire US, its this one asshole and Putin.

*and people in the US have gotten a reminder that the metaphorical ship of US government is very hard to turn, much less sink

**beyond what they previously thought