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[scriver]

Something similar happened to a lot of lumber industry in Belgium: raising lumber price due to strong Chinese demand caused a lot of companies to close, and when price went down a couple years later, they didn't reopen.

Yes I am sure that had nothing to do with the fact that Belgium doesn't have any forests

But jokes aside I was referring to that Pacific agreement that basically aimed to lessen China's hold on the trade in the east asian region that Trump backed out of. Or said he was going to back out of. I have absolutely no idea if he actually did.

[Loud Whispers]

for stuff like steel a millitary powerhouse like the US does not want, for obvious reasons, to be overly reliant on the goodwill of other powerful nations that may not be friends forever, like china or russia

Aye, and a lot of the allies Trump's tariff is targeting are people who are not producing the steel, but refining it after importing it from countries like China. The real kicker is that some countries like Canada refine more American steel than they do Chinese, thus for some countries like Canada, the tariffs will hurt US steel exports more than it hurts Chinese exports. Countries like Germany stand to get rather fucked, but I wonder if that's by design, because the Whitehouse and the Department of State haven't been able to agree for a century whether Germany is a buffer against Russia or a greater threat than Russia. UK Steel is teetering on the edge of extinction without restricted US trade, so add this on top, it'll be a nasty fake winter. Seems like everyone's getting ready for the next war

[smjjames]

Funny how he says China is the one causing problems, yet he decides to put tariffs on everybody, it's like he did it on a spur of the moment without thinking through the potential first, second, and third order consequences*.

*Being rhetorical here, obviously, since I know he did it without thinking it through. Hell, the WH didn't even have it written up yet.

Also, I kind of expect them to do the tariffs in a way that makes things even worse given how they're rushing it, and we've seen what happens when they rush it.

[Frumple]

for stuff like steel a millitary powerhouse like the US does not want, for obvious reasons, to be overly reliant on the goodwill of other powerful nations that may not be friends forever, like china or russia

... which we're not. Haven't been. And for some reason (folks seem to be putting good odds on it being mostly incompetence) we aren't directing the tariffs specifically at sources that have a fly teat's chance in a meat grinder of turning hostile, but instead everyone and by weight primarily people that are fairly staunch allies.

Military powerhouse like the U.S. also doesn't want to make bloody stupid decisions economic and otherwise, but hey, trump administration. I guess the universal tariff makes more sense if you're expecting the idiots to turn everyone hostile instead of just nations we have a history of substantial adversarial competition with.

[martinuzz]

The Mechanicus dubs this device the "Atlean Rapeanatrox."

You know what a Mechanicus is?

It's an old street trade from the 18th-19th century. Street performers who used mechanical instruments and props where called 'mechanicus'.
In the 18th century it became a surname, when Napoleon's brother instated mandatory civil registry and made people who didn't have a surname get one.

My great-great-great-great-grandfather was mostlikely a street performer, and was given his profession name as a surname, which meant he must have been a succesful street performer, because jews that could not pay a tuition didn't get a profession name, but an animal name.
If you ever meet people called 'Vos (fox), de Leeuw (the lion), or whatever animal name, they most likely have jewish ancestry in the 18th century.
Antisemitism wasn't just a thing in '40-'45.

Somewhat less long ago, my great-grandfather, Philip Mechanicus, wrote a diary while detained in Westerbork, waiting to be transported to Auschwitz.
Anne Frank's diary is the most renowned war diary. My great-grandfather's diary is also well known to those interested in the subject, although it never hyped.
Can recommend the read, he was a journalist before the war, and was versed in the art of writing.
English translation is called 'Waiting for Death', by Philip Mechanicus (original title: In Depot, dagboek uit Westerbork). Should be easy enough to find online, it's still sold. If you read it, know that every single page you read was smuggled out of a German concentration camp by a friendly vegetable waste peddler over a period of years. Miraculously, all letters got delivered properly to a safehouse, and my grandma and her sister put it together as a book after the war.

[RedKing]

I'm wondering if Trump has just been playing too much Victoria 2 lately. Steel, coal, and high tariffs?

[smjjames]

You'd have to ask Trump why he did an universial tariff rather than one directed at China. Though I suspect that Peter Navarro is largely behind that decision, and yeah, it's 100% incompetence no doubt about that. The WH staff didn't even have one written up, which implies that there was no discussion, plus he had done it after meeting with CEOs of steel industries.

It's possible that he meant to aim it at China only, and simply forgot to mention that nuance. We'll just have to see the horribly written tariff deal when they release it.

[McTraveller]

Hey on the "plus" side, if you have a universal tariff, you can't be accused of playing favorites?

[JoshuaFH]

Idiot speaking here: I learned in high school, and just looked it up again in wikipedia, that the president only has so many legally defined powers... so why does it feel like Trump thinks he has every power in the world and can do anything he wants?

[andrea]

Maybe it was universal and not directed to china simply because they barely import steel from china, so it would have no effect.

[martinuzz]

Idiot speaking here: I learned in high school, and just looked it up again in wikipedia, that the president only has so many legally defined powers... so why does it feel like Trump thinks he has every power in the world and can do anything he wants?

His words are backed by Putin's nuclear weapons, I guess?

[smjjames]

Idiot speaking here: I learned in high school, and just looked it up again in wikipedia, that the president only has so many legally defined powers... so why does it feel like Trump thinks he has every power in the world and can do anything he wants?

Possibly because he came from a business background of a family business where he could do practically anything he wants. Plus he's 71 years old and stuck in his ways.

Anyways, not sure why some Democrats are praising the tariffs, other than trying to appeal to Trump supporters. To me, it seems like that something like this which could cause real problems down the road, would be something to try to not associate yourself too closely with.

[sluissa]

Idiot speaking here: I learned in high school, and just looked it up again in wikipedia, that the president only has so many legally defined powers... so why does it feel like Trump thinks he has every power in the world and can do anything he wants?

Possibly because he came from a business background of a family business where he could do practically anything he wants. Plus he's 71 years old and stuck in his ways.

Anyways, not sure why some Democrats are praising the tariffs, other than trying to appeal to Trump supporters. To me, it seems like that something like this which could cause real problems down the road, would be something to try to not associate yourself too closely with.

Well, on paper, yes, the president only has so many legally defined powers, but in practice the other branches have the duty to check that power and it's much harder to organize 535 congresscritters or even a handful of judges in order to slap the hand of one person that gets it in their mind to do something willfully enough.

As for Dems praising tariffs, I think they're just thankful at any sort of potential revenue raising ideas given how hard that's been to push over the past couple of decades. Their constituents might even consider the appearance at being tough on China to be a good thing, even if the reality is otherwise. I don't think anyone is particularly friendly towards China right at this moment except where they might mistakenly believe they can take advantage of them in an economic sense.

[EnigmaticHat]

On economic issues, the current crop of democrats in congress is pragmatic as opposed to ideological.

[Max™]

The Mechanicus dubs this device the "Atlean Rapeanatrox."

You know what a Mechanicus is?

It's an old street trade from the 18th-19th century. Street performers who used mechanical instruments and props where called 'mechanicus'.
In the 18th century it became a surname, when Napoleon's brother instated mandatory civil registry and made people who didn't have a surname get one.

My great-great-great-great-grandfather was mostlikely a street performer, and was given his profession name as a surname, which meant he must have been a succesful street performer, because jews that could not pay a tuition didn't get a profession name, but an animal name.
If you ever meet people called 'Vos (fox), de Leeuw (the lion), or whatever animal name, they most likely have jewish ancestry in the 18th century.
Antisemitism wasn't just a thing in '40-'45.

Somewhat less long ago, my great-grandfather, Philip Mechanicus, wrote a diary while detained in Westerbork, waiting to be transported to Auschwitz.
Anne Frank's diary is the most renowned war diary. My great-grandfather's diary is also well known to those interested in the subject, although it never hyped.
Can recommend the read, he was a journalist before the war, and was versed in the art of writing.
English translation is called 'Waiting for Death', by Philip Mechanicus (original title: In Depot, dagboek uit Westerbork). Should be easy enough to find online, it's still sold. If you read it, know that every single page you read was smuggled out of a German concentration camp by a friendly vegetable waste peddler over a period of years. Miraculously, all letters got delivered properly to a safehouse, and my grandma and her sister put it together as a book after the war.

That is a fascinating story actually, and can I say how sad it is that the Greatest are dying off a little too late to avoid having to watch their grandkids (and in many cases kids) do their best to fuck everyone over by implementing a cultural stasis centered on the 1950's?

Also, I have a confession to make, I know this will come as a shock to many of you, and it will feel like a betrayal to others... but as a Gen-X member myself, I feel it is dishonest to keep it hidden: I'm...

...no no... I can do this, I practiced dammit...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm... dating a Millenial.

I know, I'm sorry, I can't help it, she's a wonderful person, I didn't know she was one of them, honest!

Hyper relevant xkcd: https://www.xkcd.com/1962/