Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Doomblade187]

On the CNN town hall: yes, some questions are scripted but the rationale behind it is to make the people being asked unable to answer yes/no alone and also to keep time moving.

Reference: https://mobile.twitter.com/ewerickson/status/966669521334521857

[misko27]

Spoiler: becauseprimaries (click to show/hide)

Now, *clears throat*, as a currently-certified NYC Board of Elections Official, I'd like to answer a few points here

I think "KEEEWWLLL!!!11oneoneone" is the appropriate response to this information. And I'll break the subset of response-points out of the spoiler, being now fewer and shorter. Slightly.

I will milk my trivial position for as much as its worth, I'll have you know.

Thus you register (or re-register) for the other party. Give up your (meagre, inconsequential) influence you would have for your ideologically-matching party (doesn't need your help to go where you happily see they are going already) and instead leverage your influence (slightly less meagre and inconsequential, you might think, especially if they're vote-wise the minority party where you are) to sour the opposition's ranks.

What do you mean? Do you mean, register for the party you are not ideologically a member of? Yes, that's completely valid, but at that point you're, by definition, just a liberal Republican, which is a thing you can be.

Or do you mean re-register within the course of a single election, i.e switch from one party to another between primaries? That wouldn't work, because A) most primaries are on the same day in the same place, and B) registering can reasonably be expected to take a long time in most (?) states.

which is functionally equivalent in the "choose only one" environment.

If you are registered for a party, semi-open is essentially closed, yes. The difference is entirely for independents.

I must look up the relative rates of unallied registrations between the various varieties of Primary operation. Keeping options open would seem useful in Semi-Open, Making a choice best in Closed. In an Open situation, there'd be no advantage either way (w.r.t. the Primaries, anyway - there might be other things a registration activates or otherwise).

That would be interesting to look at.

On the CNN town hall: yes, some questions are scripted but the rationale behind it is to make the people being asked unable to answer yes/no alone and also to keep time moving.

Reference: https://mobile.twitter.com/ewerickson/status/966669521334521857

That CNN townhall was probably the first time CNN really got the town hall format to work for them; usually it's dueling talking points no matter who is on the stage.

[martinuzz]

Yup, gotta plug the holes before you start pumping out the water that's sinking the ship. Stop their sales first, then after a while you make their registrationg mandatory with hefty fines if you fail to say, check in with the status of your weapon once a year.

That won't work unless you also add a law where, if your gun is stolen, you still remain partially responsible for anyone killed or injured with it. Or people will just 'report their guns stolen'. Plus, another law to make you never be able to purchase a firearm again if one gets stolen from you, because you obviously aren't responsible in how you keep and secure it.

[sluissa]

On the CNN town hall: yes, some questions are scripted but the rationale behind it is to make the people being asked unable to answer yes/no alone and also to keep time moving.

Reference: https://mobile.twitter.com/ewerickson/status/966669521334521857

The problem is the "town hall" format just doesn't work on the scale they're trying to make it work on.

Town halls are meant for a few hundred people AT MOST with actual questions numbering in maybe the dozens? The tradeoff is that with a town hall, even the smallest question can be addressed. It's meant for... guess what... town halls. Where you have a small community that needs to address its leadership.

You simply can't fit in all the questions, or even a representative sample of questions into such a large production and still make it seem like something real and representative of the common people. You're always going to have to filter things out. Script things. And when you start doing that, you start controlling the narrative and then it's no longer a town hall. It's just a scripted Q&A session with an audience.

I can't say it enough, fuck CNN for pulling this shit. But if we're being honest, everyone on stage there but Nelson was an idiot for actually attending. (NRA may get a pass too, because they can basically say whatever crazy shit they want, supporters gonna support and haters gonna hate. Nothing that happened there under their control mattered one bit.)

[martinuzz]

I almost think it wouldn't be bad if the place somehow started a minor blaze. At least that would hopefully catch the eye of anyone smart enough to realize that this is a terrible, terrible idea to have that much paper.

And a good reason for the police to do door to door raids to 're-register' all firearms, because all registry was lost.

Haha, I just had a mental image of the police chief standing before the judge and saying 'sir, I need a warrant to search the homes of all US citizens, please'

[Zangi]

I almost think it wouldn't be bad if the place somehow started a minor blaze. At least that would hopefully catch the eye of anyone smart enough to realize that this is a terrible, terrible idea to have that much paper.

And a good reason for the police to do door to door raids to 're-register' all firearms, because all registry was lost.

Haha, I just had a mental image of the police chief standing before the judge and saying 'sir, I need a warrant to search the homes of all US citizens, please'

Big Guvment trying to pry into the lives of lawabiding citizens.

[Hanslanda]

I would be rather upset if such a thing came to pass. Go watch V for Vendetta. Trading rights to an authoritarian dictatorship for a feeling of safety is never a good idea unless the dictator's name is Cincinnatus.

[Reelya]

Yup, gotta plug the holes before you start pumping out the water that's sinking the ship. Stop their sales first, then after a while you make their registrationg mandatory with hefty fines if you fail to say, check in with the status of your weapon once a year. Maybe offer to buy them off of folks, trade ins for less dangerous shit are an option too.
Anything can be worked out once that first step of stemming the tide is made.

Also, like any connected market, reducing supply has ripple-on effects through the whole market.

e.g. say you restrict AR-15 sales. First, that reduces the supply of new AR-15s and it reduces the amount of new AR-15s destined for re-sale on or on the black market. But additionally anyone who already owns an AR-15 will be much less inclined to sell it, because they're harder to replace. e.g. rarity = "collectable", so people stop trading them. Additionally, some of the demand for AR-15s will be displaced to other firearms, which will push up their price on the secondary markets.

Increased age restrictions on buying guns is a good start, since it's a policy you could make palatable to both liberals and conservatives.

[Loud Whispers]

Or they're the AI from the Culture. In which case we get immortality, a post-scarcity economy, maximum freedoms, and the possibility to ascend to another plane of existence if a sufficient number of us choose to do so simultaneously.

Never trust an AI with your ability to die. That's how you end up having to scream, but lack a mouth. We must dissent famalam

Increased age restrictions on buying guns is a good start, since it's a policy you could make palatable to both liberals and conservatives.

Another would be legal pressures to get gun owners to go to training courses. These courses would raise the expenses required to get into guns, already excluding much young people, while promoting safe storage/usage practice and expertise in gun use, making it palatable to both pro and anti gun proliferation wings

[redwallzyl]

Some interesting new new research. Chicago has had a dropping murder rate sense the 90s but recent looks at the number of shootings recorded by the cities medical administration has shown no decrease. The hospitals have just gotten insanely good at trauma medicine. That does not bode well for the city or the county for that matter.

[Loud Whispers]

Some interesting new new research. Chicago has had a dropping murder rate sense the 90s but recent looks at the number of shootings recorded by the cities medical administration has shown no decrease. The hospitals have just gotten insanely good at trauma medicine. That does not bode well for the city or the county for that matter.

That's pretty Dorfy. High casualty rates but legendary doctors

[Reelya]

Some interesting new new research. Chicago has had a dropping murder rate sense the 90s but recent looks at the number of shootings recorded by the cities medical administration has shown no decrease. The hospitals have just gotten insanely good at trauma medicine. That does not bode well for the city or the county for that matter.

It's both good and bad news. It's good that the murder rate is down, regardless of why it's down. And it suggests that if they can in fact knock their gun crime problem down in the future, they'll see big further reductions. If the reduction was in fact only because of reduced crime, then it wouldn't be at all clear that they can elicit further reductions.

the other thing it does though, is highlight how both the gun problem and the expensive healthcare problem could be adding to USA's relatively high murder rate, when you stack the two things together.

[wierd]

I have a potential solution to the gun crime problem, (itself an extension of improper gun ownership)---

People who buy guns, and live in/near a city, need to log X hours of range time with that hardware each month, or the feds come and take it.  Make it something reasonable, like 12hrs in a month period. (Thats 3 hours every week during the month; about a nice shooting session at the range every weekend.) It makes owning multiple firearms arduous, and people that buy guns because of small penis syndrome will quickly tire of the requirement. People that actually have a need for a firearm will benefit from the practice using it.

[Reelya]

Three hours a week seems excessive, however the idea has some value.

If certification is required, then a huge certification-related industry will spring up. e.g. in Australia, except for farmers and other professions, for recreational gun use, you need to be a member of a gun club (of various types) to have guns, so of course, the gun clubs love that set of rules and do their best to enforce them for you.

Or just do what Switzerland does: everyone must own a gun (is this necessarily true, actually? Can't recall if it is required or simply just that a lot of people do). Everyone must also join the military.

Switzerland = Red Herring

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Switzerland/United-Kingdom/Crime
Murders with firearms per million. Switzerland: 9.33,  United Kingdom 0.236

^ This data is a bit out of date, however it shows how high the gun-homicide rate actually was before 2007 happened:

http://www.dw.com/en/switzerland-considers-gun-control/a-2709342

The only country with a higher rate of suicide with guns than Switzerland is the United States. And it's not just suicide: every month or so, a Swiss man turns his gun on his family. The country has the highest rate of domestic violence using guns in Europe.

https://concealed.wordpress.com/2007/10/27/switzerland-strips-all-citizens-of-gun-rights/

Despite the vehement protests from many of Switzerland’s cantons (states), the lower chamber of the nation’s Federal Assembly voted to strip its citizens of gun rights, not by registering or confiscating firearms, but by outlawing the storing of ammunition in the homes of the citizens.

So yeah, the "they have guns and it's safe!" thing misses the history. They still have the guns, but the government said "ok keep the guns, but no bullets for you!" after which things got safer. It's incredibly difficult to buy bullets in Switzerland, you basically need to go get a current police check, prove why you need the bullets, make sure you've got a current firearm license (that's only valid for 3-5 years, e.g. you need to convince them you still need each gun you own on a regular basis) for the gun that the bullets are for, then register your purchase with the canton weapons bureau, after which you can take all that paperwork to the store that sells ammo and get your ammo.

[redwallzyl]

I know, I just like making the equally laughable suggestion that everyone in the US should join the military.

That certainly be interesting if it was a thing. I wonder how much it would increase the budget. Also I think that would effectively give everyone universal healthcare.