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[sluissa]

@sluissa: Since pre-pai was as good as it could get, it makes some sense to lock it in place and try to improve from there.

Pre-pai was hardly as good as it could get. Did nothing to resolve regional monopolies or allow new companies to enter already served markets. Was only effective to the point it was enforced, which it wasn't, even Pre-Trump. It was bare minimum we should expect.

No surprise either: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/12/gop-net-neutrality-bill-would-allow-paid-fast-lanes-and-preempt-state-laws/

[smjjames]

I meant as good as politicians were able to get it. I know it's not the best possible, but a benchmark is still a benchmark.

edit: The whole pre-empt state laws kind of cries "But states rights!"

[Frumple]

... so apparently the GOP fucked it up again, the house has to re-vote on the tax scam, and whatever the senate was working towards gets put off for another few days. Shutdown's, what, friday or something? Seem to recall that particular pooch screwing is rapidly approaching.

[smjjames]

I saw something about that, any idea why the House has to vote on it again? Some kind of procedural screwup?

edit: Yep, procedural hiccups. Apparently the title is one of those strange arcane things that violated the byrd rule and whatever procedural hiccup is going on. I don't profess to understand why the title of all things would violate it.

[EnigmaticHat]

Good on the democrats.  In one action they establish their own stance and apply pressure to Republican congressmen to break with their party.  Or at the very least if the democrats force a vote the Republicans will be forced to tie down their opinions on an unpopular issue.

Not that I would expect them to *win* but you know.  What you can accomplish as the opposition party in the US is limited.

Re: Alien invasion, not living on planet Earth breaks MAD, so they could just nuke us.  Or in greater likeliness, H-bomb us.  Although I suppose you could look at it the other way, which is not living on Earth would making nuking us vastly more expensive than nuking themselves. Presumably even alien intelligences are still beholden to economics.  And if we assume no FTL travel, it would take years for our light to reach them, and then years * their travel speed / light speed for their weapons to reach us.  So for all they know we would already be extinct or capable of retaliation by the time their WMDs arrived.

Why build stuff when you should just throw a large asteroid.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I can't find it for the life of me, but because of the fuel weight equation.  Basically the more rocket fuel you put on a vessel, the more rocket fuel it needs (because rocket fuel has mass and thus weight).  At some point you either hit diminishing returns where more fuel does not increase travel distance, or you split up your rocket into an exponentially increasing number of smaller rockets.

Of course, you could mine and manufacture your thrusters and their transport craft in space, but.  Why not just build the WMD in space at that point?  AFAIK telescopes can't get you enough information to calculate gravity wells at a distance, so you'll need some kind of AI and maneuvering thrusters in order to keep your vessel on course for the untold years it would take to reach Earth.  So its not enough to throw some ion thrusters on an asteroid and point it in the right direction.  You need some kind of computer to keep it on course, and maneuvering thrusters.  Since those will be active some percentage of the time that means you can't just say "there's no decay in space" and call it a day, you presumably need some repair materials/backup power/repair arms to keep everything running while in space (and then something to keep those running, or spares, which becomes its own version of the fuel weight equation).

So the point is, you'd need some kind of massive transport vessel to lug your engines and solar panels and advanced circuitry and fuel over to the asteroid, and that transport would also need to carry enough fuel to reach its target speed twice (once to accelerate towards the asteroid, once to decelerate upon reaching it), then enough fuel to maneuver and accelerate the asteroid on a best-guess course for Earth.  Then you would need a support infrastructure to keep it on course, which would be presumably more extensive due to the asteroids mass.

This is all for a weapon that humans will presumably be already monitoring for.  Meanwhile, your WMD has a much lower mass, and only needs to accelerate once to get on a best guess course.  It also doesn't need to be going as fast, since its damage isn't going to be dealt via impact.  Its still a massive, uncertain undertaking but more doable by far.

[hector13]

I saw something about that, any idea why the House has to vote on it again? Some kind of procedural screwup?

edit: Yep, procedural hiccups. Apparently the title is one of those strange arcane things that violated the byrd rule and whatever procedural hiccup is going on. I don't profess to understand why the title of all things would violate it.

From the article:

Those rules generally require that the tax bill’s policies directly affect federal spending and revenue and that the plan doesn’t increase the federal deficit after 10 years

I must be missing something. Isn’t the tax reform s’posed to add $1.4tn to the deficit over 10 years? Are there different deficits?

Also, as per the article, the largest tax change in 30+ years has taken 2 months to sort out and then pass. I foresee no problems occurring because of the lack of time to iron out wrinkles and straighten kinks.

I mean they didn’t even manage to fix procedural issues before bringing it to vote, holy Jesus fuck what else did they miss?

[redwallzyl]

I saw something about that, any idea why the House has to vote on it again? Some kind of procedural screwup?

edit: Yep, procedural hiccups. Apparently the title is one of those strange arcane things that violated the byrd rule and whatever procedural hiccup is going on. I don't profess to understand why the title of all things would violate it.

From the article:

Those rules generally require that the tax bill’s policies directly affect federal spending and revenue and that the plan doesn’t increase the federal deficit after 10 years

I must be missing something. Isn’t the tax reform s’posed to add $1.4tn to the deficit over 10 years? Are there different deficits?

Also, as per the article, the largest tax change in 30+ years has taken 2 months to sort out and then pass. I foresee no problems occurring because of the lack of time to iron out wrinkles and straighten kinks.

I mean they didn’t even manage to fix procedural issues before bringing it to vote, holy Jesus fuck what else did they miss?

Likely something really bad. How the hell people can still support them I don't know.

[Aklyon]

... so apparently the GOP fucked it up again, the house has to re-vote on the tax scam, and whatever the senate was working towards gets put off for another few days. Shutdown's, what, friday or something? Seem to recall that particular pooch screwing is rapidly approaching.

It is exactly Friday, the 22nd. Christmas is the Monday after. They are out of time to continue this fuck up without abandoning it to The 2018 first.

[smjjames]

... so apparently the GOP fucked it up again, the house has to re-vote on the tax scam, and whatever the senate was working towards gets put off for another few days. Shutdown's, what, friday or something? Seem to recall that particular pooch screwing is rapidly approaching.

It is exactly Friday, the 22nd. Christmas is the Monday after. They are out of time to continue this fuck up without abandoning it to The 2018 first.

And they'll get hell from their consistuents if they skip town and go home while the government is shut down.

It could still happen because the House and Senate are having a fight (what's new?) over Obamacare related payments and some other stuff. Mainly the House Republicans against Senate Republicans, but the Dems are in the fray as well.

The DACA stuff has been (reluctantly on the Dems part) booted to January. Though there may be a continuing resolution which will push the shutdown fight into January. Meanwhile, theres a debt ceiling that's supposed to be looming somewhere between January and June.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Shockingly, it turns out legislating takes a long fucking time when you're trying to pass thousand page bills that redefine our finances.

[Max™]

Good on the democrats.  In one action they establish their own stance and apply pressure to Republican congressmen to break with their party.  Or at the very least if the democrats force a vote the Republicans will be forced to tie down their opinions on an unpopular issue.

Not that I would expect them to *win* but you know.  What you can accomplish as the opposition party in the US is limited.

Re: Alien invasion, not living on planet Earth breaks MAD, so they could just nuke us.  Or in greater likeliness, H-bomb us.  Although I suppose you could look at it the other way, which is not living on Earth would making nuking us vastly more expensive than nuking themselves. Presumably even alien intelligences are still beholden to economics.  And if we assume no FTL travel, it would take years for our light to reach them, and then years * their travel speed / light speed for their weapons to reach us.  So for all they know we would already be extinct or capable of retaliation by the time their WMDs arrived.

Why build stuff when you should just throw a large asteroid.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I can't find it for the life of me, but because of the fuel weight equation.  Basically the more rocket fuel you put on a vessel, the more rocket fuel it needs (because rocket fuel has mass and thus weight).  At some point you either hit diminishing returns where more fuel does not increase travel distance, or you split up your rocket into an exponentially increasing number of smaller rockets.

Of course, you could mine and manufacture your thrusters and their transport craft in space, but.  Why not just build the WMD in space at that point?  AFAIK telescopes can't get you enough information to calculate gravity wells at a distance, so you'll need some kind of AI and maneuvering thrusters in order to keep your vessel on course for the untold years it would take to reach Earth.  So its not enough to throw some ion thrusters on an asteroid and point it in the right direction.  You need some kind of computer to keep it on course, and maneuvering thrusters.  Since those will be active some percentage of the time that means you can't just say "there's no decay in space" and call it a day, you presumably need some repair materials/backup power/repair arms to keep everything running while in space (and then something to keep those running, or spares, which becomes its own version of the fuel weight equation).

So the point is, you'd need some kind of massive transport vessel to lug your engines and solar panels and advanced circuitry and fuel over to the asteroid, and that transport would also need to carry enough fuel to reach its target speed twice (once to accelerate towards the asteroid, once to decelerate upon reaching it), then enough fuel to maneuver and accelerate the asteroid on a best-guess course for Earth.  Then you would need a support infrastructure to keep it on course, which would be presumably more extensive due to the asteroids mass.

This is all for a weapon that humans will presumably be already monitoring for.  Meanwhile, your WMD has a much lower mass, and only needs to accelerate once to get on a best guess course.  It also doesn't need to be going as fast, since its damage isn't going to be dealt via impact.  Its still a massive, uncertain undertaking but more doable by far.

Well....

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If you can accelerate something long enough via say, massive laser arrays and lens magic or straight up antimatter rocketry, then you start reaching velocities where the energy released from an object as massive as a fusion bomb is far greater than any such bomb would release on detonation, at which point you just slap something heavy in place of a payload and hurl it off in a giant act of fuckery from a great distance.

As we haven't seen any RKKV impacts or launches, nor have we seen the flare of a relativistic torchship on a brachistochrone into the solar system we are left asking if there is some sort of effect beyond known physics that would let a species visit us without riding an antimatter torch, which then raises the question of why they haven't spread across the galaxy in a visible fashion, or accept that it's probably more appealing to stay home and play pretend.

Though now I'm wondering at what point it would be easier to spend energy simulating a distant star system to arbitrary detail rather than spend energy sending even a tiny probe out there?

[smjjames]

And yet they did the whole thing within a few months when it usually takes a year or more.

Looks like they're going to do a continuing resolution. Sounds like they've removed stuff that wouldn't pass the Senate, but.... I wouldn't count out the Senate objecting to something in there (I think they need to get 60 votes for this one) and have it not pass.

[EnigmaticHat]

Are there actually republicans on the street that object to the disaster relief spending?  I feel like maybe if it was a blue state, but its Texas.  That has to hit home a little even for Republicans from other states.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I seem to recall a certain incident where Republican politicians were calling for letting New York and New Jersey languish after Hurricane Sandy.

[wierd]

Re: Shooting at alien scout ships

Bad idea.  Presumably the aliens have FTL of some sort (Or they are **REALLY** dedicated to their mission; enough so that they are willing to devote entire generations of their people to them--- OR at least, a big chunk of a very long lifespan) which means that if you piss them off, all they have to do to wipe us out is fly a scout ship out of our atmosphere, put it on auto pilot, engage the FTL, and ram it into the planet.  Goodbye all life more complex that microbes.  If you really do see an alien spaceship?  Realize that as an ant, you DONT want to attract the attention of the bored little kid with the magnifying glass, or the fire crackers.  'Nuff said.

Re: Net-Neutrality

What we need is lasting, wide sweeping classification of all information services as title II, with all that entails, including the requirement to not degrade competing services.  I dont care if it is cellular, landline, fiber optic, or futuristic subspace fucking radio. Monopolisitic business capture of the regulatory system is disastrous. Just look at this clusterfuck from Pai being the FCC chair. ( I am totally *SURE* that Verizon is not somewhere with their hand up Pai's ass! Honest! His being a former board member is PUUUUURRRE coincidence considering what he is pushing!)  Schumer's plan at least staunches the bloodletting, but it does nothing to stop the crazed surgeon from trying to operate again.

Re:  Tax plan "hiccups"

At this point I think a government shutdown would be preferable to letting that miscarriage of integrity actually become law.