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[MetalSlimeHunt]

That said, the typical tribal unit that humans can reasonably cope with is a lot smaller than the entire nation, so we clump into groups of like-minded people and almost never have to deal with non-like-minded people: in fact some writers have noticed that even without effort they seem to know almost no people who would vote for the other party. e.g. one writer I recall was a Democrat, living in an extremely Republican-majority region, and they were musing on how they didn't know a single Republican in their normal social circles. We're so good at segregating that it happens without conscious effort to achieve it.

I wouldn't say it's not conscious, exactly. When you're as unreconciled as the left and the right in America are, it's hard to want to go to the effort to deal with people from the other side. I really can't say I see any reason why I'd make the effort to be friends with a solid Republican. They live in an entirely different reality than me, we're not likely to have much of anything in common. How am I supposed to be close to a person if they're going to be a problem child over having LGBT friends, or being critical of business and religion, or women expecting equal treatment? That stuff ends up showing more often than not, and it's just odious. #NotAllRepublicans hit all of those issues, and not all of them have the lack of tact to bring it up, but even then it creates an unbreachable distance of how they look at the world compared to me which makes even being acquaintances a balancing act.

And with the way the GOP has gone since the end of the Cold War, the margin where you reach that point just gets closer and closer to the center. I know people who are way less left than me and basically just stopped talking to known Trump voters after the election. It's an exponential magnitude growth of similar breaking points following the Obama and Dubya elections, and it might not stop there either. The only Republicans I socialize with are the ones I share blood with and the ones I don't know are Republicans.

[Dunamisdeos]

It's not a choice between inaction and action, it's a choice between making a lasting difference and adding to the problem.

I contend that I have done more to help our society by showing 3 people that tolerance, peaceful coexistence, and acceptance are possible than anyone ever has by throwing more wood on the hate fire. We aren't working towards normalizing or ensuring essential services aren't denied to anyone, we are deliberately and meticulously sending the message that as long as you believe differently from me, you will never have peace.

I don't need to rely on "what if", because I can rely on the results I see in front of me. There is no hypothetical, no idealism, no sanctimonious preaching, we are actually sitting right here, getting along. I am friends with their families. They are with mine too, and my old man has a four year classical seminary degree and has a leadership role in our southern Baptist church. The bisexual one calls my mother "Mom #2", and lived with us for like 6 months. One of my group is hardline republican, the other hardline liberal, the other is... I think independent? I'm actually not sure. He has liberal leanings.

I have yet to hear anyone explain to me why they cannot reach across boundaries the same way we have. Why they will not? Sure. I'm tired of hearing people talk about polarizing their own views against others' like they are somehow being forced to do it, like they are some kind of tragic protagonist fighting the good fight. You hate them because they have different beliefs. The names don't matter.

[RedKing]

Jesus H, I take a break for a couple weeks, and we're still doing this navel-gazing circlejerk shit?

They hate us, we hate them. There, that was easy. It's not like this is a unique situation in history. We know where it's headed, and it's going to be fucking ugly.

[smjjames]

Trump criticised for capital/wall proximity...

Wrong wall... But yeah, making Jerusalem the capitol and moving the embassy there is a massive deal. State Department has been warning of potential violence over it. Maybe nothing will really come of it, or the MidEast will explode into a conflagration, we'll see.

[RedKing]

Trump criticised for capital/wall proximity...

Wrong wall... But yeah, making Jerusalem the capitol and moving the embassy there is a massive deal. State Department has been warning of potential violence over it. Maybe nothing will really come of it, or the MidEast will explode into a conflagration, we'll see.

Nothing says "peace on Earth, goodwill towards men" like triggering a Third Intifada over a dickwaving move.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Stop the thread, it's Alex Jones time!

[smjjames]

Stop the thread, it's Alex Jones time!

Someone who didn't know Alex Jones would think he's psychotic. Maybe he actually is.

[nenjin]

I mean, we've kinda been waiting for this right? Trump either making a thoughtless, uninformed comment off the cuff about serious geopolitical issues.....or intentionally rejecting the advice of everyone in the world and doing the opposite simply because he can. It's all "fun and games" when it's US Domestic policy.

Maybe his real goal isn't to be, like, the most fondly remembered president. Maybe he's just ensuring that, for good or ill, his name will be stamped large across the history books. Trump, the man who broke an 80-year stalemate in the Middle East by touching off WW3.

And maybe he's just emboldened by the NK situation and enjoying throwing around the US' political weight and doing what other presidents wouldn't do; rattle everyone's cages. (Or "not keeping the peace.") Funny thing though when he doesn't have to shoulder the burden of the violence this move will touch off. It's not like radicals need an encouragement to violence. What you worry about is radicalizing people who were neutral at worst with the status quo.

Stop the thread, it's Alex Jones time!

The tapeworms in Alex's gut are like "Is he talking about us?"

[RedKing]

One day, Alex Jones is going to have an epileptic seizure while taping, and the only clue his staff is going to have that something is wrong is that he seems unusally calm and collected.

[smjjames]

He's been saying since the election that he'd move the embassy, so, if you (or anybody in the MidEast) are surprised at it, you haven't been paying attention since it's not out of the blue.

[nenjin]

He's been saying since the election that he'd move the embassy, so, if you (or anybody in the MidEast) are surprised at it, you haven't been paying attention since it's not out of the blue.

Must have missed that amongst all the other crazy shit he was saying no one thought they'd have to take seriously.

[Dunamisdeos]

Jesus H, I take a break for a couple weeks, and we're still doing this navel-gazing circlejerk shit?

They hate us, we hate them. There, that was easy. It's not like this is a unique situation in history. We know where it's headed, and it's going to be fucking ugly.

Yeah, it is actually unique, because we have unprecedented tools for communication, unprecedented access to information and the ability to cross boundaries, and people like you on both sides still knowingly opt to embrace hatred.

Also, I think the idea that hate is somehow OK in any way because "it's not unique" neatly showcases my point. Thank you.

Maybe his real goal isn't to be, like, the most fondly remembered president. Maybe he's just ensuring that, for good or ill, his name will be stamped large across the history books.

This is probably all that motivates him in terms of his presidency.

Someone who didn't know Alex Jones would think he's psychotic. Maybe he actually is.

I don't have a PhD but I don't think anyone could do what he does and not have some level of actual sociopathy.

[smjjames]

I've never gotten the idea that RedKing embraced hatred, Dunamisdeos, he's just really pessimistic about it because hes experienced how shitty it gets on the Republican side. I don't think he's actually declared himself to be Republican, but that doesn't matter.

I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, wish that conservatives would stop making political hay out of this because it seems like at some point something is going to snap. I know it's only natural for conservatives to hate on appearances of liberal bias like a rabid, thing, but it's starting to feel like conservatives are so desperate to paint it as biased that if Mueller crapped himself, they'd take that as proof that it's biased.

[RedKing]

I've never gotten the idea that RedKing embraced hatred, Dunamisdeos, he's just really pessimistic about it because hes experienced how shitty it gets on the Republican side. I don't think he's actually declared himself to be Republican, but that doesn't matter.

I'm pessimistic because I've seen the "why can't we all just get along" trope used my whole life, at times far less divisive than these, and the only effect I've observed is a steady lean to the Right in this country.

When the Left is in power, Republicans talk about the importance of bipartisanship and consensus, because they're on the outside looking in. Meanwhile their allies in the punditocracy screech hate and lies and pull the electorate to the Right.

As soon as they gain power, bipartisanship goes out the fucking window, because "elections have consequences". They do whatever the fuck they want, and if anybody tries to stop them, they get hanmered with rhetoric.

When Democrats get back into power, they generally lack that "fuck you, got mine" aspect to policymaking. Which means they don't counterbalance the Right. At best, they halt the bleeding.

So to my mind, arguing "we should try to understand each other and compromise" is just a tired old wolf-in-sheeps clothing argument to try and defuse the Left from actually doing unto others as has been done unto them.

Fuck that noise. The Republicans have been building this for 30-40 years, it's time to reap the whirlwind, bitches.

[smjjames]

Democrats may be starting to feel the 'fuck you, got mine' aspect to policymaking now that they're getting tugged to the left, plus this whole political atmosphere.