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[wierd]

I have been seeing these signs for the past 5 years. (The extreme measures required to try to inflate our way out of the 2008 collapse was pretty telling on just how 'healthy' the economy is with our incumbent hyperleech oligopoly players in charge, and following that, the clearly suicidal policy they have championed in its wake)

At this point, I am hoping for a complete systemic collapse. (Yes, really. The human race has put off natural boom-bust cycles for itself for a dangerously long time, and despite what some very naive people might think, our planet just does not have the capacity to elevate all of its existing population to first world status. The conspicuous lifestyles of those already at that level are sufficient to be driving manmade climate change at a truly appalling rate. If we look at animal models as a guide, the sooner the bust cycle happens, the better the long term survival rate for human kind is.  So, I find myself wishing for the collapse to happen sooner rather than later, to avoid the complete loss of the human race.)

Whoever said Malthus is dead? Clearly, he was an economist, and not an ecologist.

[Pwnzerfaust]

I hope for a bust as long as the bust doesn't significantly affect the developed world. If it fucks over Africa and Asia I don't care, but if it fucks over the US and Europe I don't want it.

[Reelya]

    Everything you use is made in Asia however, if that collapses then you're going to have to pay much more for products which would lead to a significant decline in standard of living for most Americans, even if there is no "bust"

[wierd]

I dont hold any such preferences.  In fact, the preservation of current power players in those localities will only spur a huge *INCREASE* in conspicuous resource use and depletion, as the costs of shameless resource exploitation drops, due to the mass die off. (In short, I am very much against "Nwabudike Morgan" being in charge. HE (figuratively) IS THE REASON I YEARN FOR THE BUST CYCLE.)

For the bust cycle to be effective in curbstomping the effects of the looming anthropocene mass exctinction, it has to curbstomp conspicuous resource use, and the ability to shamelessly extract 100% of resources from the environment--- and do so long enough for the biosphere to recover (which will take hundreds of years.)


Really, you have two choices:  Fall of civilization, or extinction of mankind from biosphere collapse. The wolves are already at the door.

[Pwnzerfaust]

Everything you use is made in Asia however, if that collapses then you're going to have to pay much more for products which would lead to a significant decline in standard of living for most Americans, even if there is no "bust".

I'm willing to accept that.

I dont hold any such preferences.  In fact, the preservation of current power players in those localities will only spur a huge *INCREASE* in conspicuous resource use and depletion, as the costs of shameless resource exploitation drops, due to the mass die off. (In short, I am very much against "Nwabudike Morgan" being in charge. HE (figuratively) IS THE REASON I YEARN FOR THE BUST CYCLE.)

For the bust cycle to be effective in curbstomping the effects of the looming anthropocene mass exctinction, it has to curbstomp conspicuous resource use, and the ability to shamelessly extract 100% of resources from the environment--- and do so long enough for the biosphere to recover (which will take hundreds of years.)


Really, you have two choices:  Fall of civilization, or extinction of mankind from biosphere collapse. The wolves are already at the door.

You're overly pessimistic and you are ignoring other potential resource sources.

[nenjin]

Renting in my town sucks ass. I would pay only a few hundred dollars less a month to rent an actual house as I would for a 1 bedroom efficiency apartment. I fucking hate living in a wealthy college town, all the rates here are based on the assumption that mommy and daddy can afford to pay $1k a month for their brat to have an apartment, so the prices on everything are driven up because of it.

[wierd]

*NO I AM NOT*

**FOR EITHER STATEMENT**

You DO realize that flying insect populations, globally, have declined 75% in the past 3 decades, right?
That GLOBAL fish populations are in dangeorus decline from over exploitation?

That this picture is pretty much systemic OVER THE WHOLE DAMN PLANET, right?

---And the REASON for it, is because of the thinking you are proposing?!

"Hey, we just about made atlantic tuna extinct-- Lets fish something ELSE to extinction, because hey, there's always more fish in the sea!! People gotta eat, right!?"

[Reelya]

Everything you use is made in Asia however, if that collapses then you're going to have to pay much more for products which would lead to a significant decline in standard of living for most Americans, even if there is no "bust".

I'm willing to accept that.

But this doesn't make any sense, because the economies of the USA and Europe are the ones that have the structural problem.

It doesn't even make sense to ask for a fix for that which only affects other economies. It's like saying you're ok with the fall of Soviet Communism as long as it only affects USA and Britain, and not USSR and China.

For example, one of the big issues is that the USA consumes 1/5th of the world's oil despite only holding 4% of the world's people. And that share used to be much larger. Expecting other nations to cut down their oil consumption to make up for that isn't a rational or reasonable solution to the problem. No, the core problem is that one nation is consuming far more than their reasonable per-capita share of resources. Expecting everyone else to collapse into poverty so that this situation is sustainanble is plain bullshit.

[Baffler]

Economies in other parts of the world have the exact same structural problems, they just aren't as far along the track as we are. Collapse there would just be preventative rather than curative.

[Karnewarrior]

*NO I AM NOT*

**FOR EITHER STATEMENT**

You DO realize that flying insect populations, globally, have declined 75% in the past 3 decades, right?
That GLOBAL fish populations are in dangeorus decline from over exploitation?

That this picture is pretty much systemic OVER THE WHOLE DAMN PLANET, right?

---And the REASON for it, is because of the thinking you are proposing?!

"Hey, we just about made atlantic tuna extinct-- Lets fish something ELSE to extinction, because hey, there's always more fish in the sea!! People gotta eat, right!?"

Humans aren't insects. We experience a sustainable curve in population growth. The issue is resource exploitation, and that is being fixed (slowly) from multiple venues into something far more sustainable.

There's no need to call for the collapse of the human race. Climate change is definitely happening, but we're not about to end the whole biosphere quite yet, and it looks less likely by the day.

[Reelya]

Not quite, USA leads the developed world in income inequality, while China for example is seeing high growth being connected with lower income inequality. Plus they only spend 15% of their GDP on government.

http://fortune.com/2015/09/30/america-wealth-inequality/
https://www.statista.com/statistics/250400/inequality-of-income-distribution-in-china-based-on-the-gini-index/

Here's the top 10 for income wealth inequality:

    U.S.A. — 80.56
    Sweden — 79.90
    U.K. — 75.72
    Indonesia — 73.61
    Austria — 73.59
    Germany — 73.34
    Colombia — 73.18
    Chile — 73.17
    Brazil — 72.86
    Mexico — 70.00

Note that this goes from 0 to 100. 0 is perfect wealth equality, while 100 is perfect wealth inequality - a score of "100" would means that one person has 100% of all wealth. 80 is fucking really bad, and this is getting worse, while China is actually going in the opposite direction.

[Karnewarrior]

Of course, that also has to be compared to the average QOL and income and such. Everyone could be income equal if everyone was broke and it would still suck.

Not saying that China is full of broke-ass commies but just as a correlary.

[wierd]

*NO I AM NOT*

**FOR EITHER STATEMENT**

You DO realize that flying insect populations, globally, have declined 75% in the past 3 decades, right?
That GLOBAL fish populations are in dangeorus decline from over exploitation?

That this picture is pretty much systemic OVER THE WHOLE DAMN PLANET, right?

---And the REASON for it, is because of the thinking you are proposing?!

"Hey, we just about made atlantic tuna extinct-- Lets fish something ELSE to extinction, because hey, there's always more fish in the sea!! People gotta eat, right!?"

Humans aren't insects. We experience a sustainable curve in population growth. The issue is resource exploitation, and that is being fixed (slowly) from multiple venues into something far more sustainable.

There's no need to call for the collapse of the human race. Climate change is definitely happening, but we're not about to end the whole biosphere quite yet, and it looks less likely by the day.

Duuuude... Do you NOT comprehend the implications of insect decline!??!?!?!

Here, insects are important in the breakdown of complex organic matter, to recycle them in the biosphere. they are essential organisms. In addition to that, the classification of insect most impacted by this ALARMING AS FUCK TREND, are the ones responsible for pollinating our crops.  They die, we dont have food.

Their decline is directly attributable to human actions that were taken to further human interests without serious contemplation of their long term effects, much like your proposed handwavey solutions.

You will find that the consensus opinion among climate and ecological scientists is that "Technology will not save you."
http://e360.yale.edu/features/how_far_can_technology_go_to_stave_off_climate_change

The solution they propose? "Societal change"-- eg, "Hey yo, you dont really need that hummer, you cant have it." et al.  EG, a serious reduction in the conspicuous consumption of mankind. The very thing that is synonymous with "first world living."

[Reelya]

Of course, that also has to be compared to the average QOL and income and such. Everyone could be income equal if everyone was broke and it would still suck.

Not saying that China is full of broke-ass commies but just as a correlary.

But everyone would be happy then. No really, they have research to back that up.

https://www.citylab.com/equity/2015/12/income-inequality-makes-people-unhappy/416268/

[pikachu17]

-Ninja'd was responding to wierd.
Yeah, we humans seem to choose to see things like the enviroment from less important views, like money, instead of making sure that we actually have a planet in 200 years. The earth is going to be destroyed in a billion years, but that is no reason to screw it beforehand.
If it gets them more money, people will do stuff bad to the environment, and that is just stupid.
Yes, insects are really, really important for our survival. And, yeah, I think we may be too far gone to save the earth from the fate we have put upon it. Climate Change is approaching, or has surpassed, a no-return point.