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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 4437830 times)

Trekkin

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Re: AmeriPol: GOP attempting ACA repeal again.
« Reply #12690 on: September 20, 2017, 08:54:06 am »

>.> A huge and ideologically varied chunk of the world's population literally used open hostility to suppress nazis, you know this.

And that's why there are none left today, right?

Violence works against static entities like countries, Nazi Germany among them, but ideas move faster than fists. There's no one to wave a white flag and sign a peace treaty and end the war on an ideology; likewise, there is no war machine to cripple and no one to rationally recognize they have lost. There's just violence, forever, and symbiotically "opposing" ideologies that feed on that violence. The Nazis need you to punch them; without violent opposition, the stupidity of their rhetoric is obvious even to them.

I think part of the problem is that the "punch a Nazi" crowd has equated Nazis with Nazism, which is both dangerous and slightly silly. If hurting Nazis was going to stop Nazism, and World War II didn't shut them up, what the hell are you going to do?
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scriver

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Re: AmeriPol: GOP attempting ACA repeal again.
« Reply #12691 on: September 20, 2017, 08:55:50 am »

Think about other groups with victimhood conspiracy theories or self-identities, how do they react when people are openly hostile? e.g. for example if men are more hostile to radical feminists, does that in fact make them less radical feminists? Or does it make them more radical feminists? Of couse the latter is true. If a theory is self-evident it should also be universal, e.g. if you say "punch a nazi" suppresses Nazis but the same attitude doesn't suppress other groups such as Radfems, then you need to have a coherent theory explaining the difference, or you're merely appealling to special pleading.
When radical feminists start enacting programs to set up camps where certain males can be selected out for their usefulness and the rest get culled, I'll be straight up "punch a radfem", yo.

I don't see any Nazi equivalents to that in the US either.
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Love, scriver~

smjjames

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Re: AmeriPol: GOP attempting ACA repeal again.
« Reply #12692 on: September 20, 2017, 09:00:29 am »

Nazi radfems, huh?? And Reelya, PLEASE make your own topic! I've said repeatedly to move on!.... I'm fine with the discussion itself, but it's not particularily relevant to politics.

In actual politics, the Republicans are effectively jamming something through without even knowing what's in it, the GOP aide's quote clinches it. Basically, "to hell with the consequences, we'll deal with them later!"
« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 09:04:22 am by smjjames »
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Max™

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Re: AmeriPol: GOP attempting ACA repeal again.
« Reply #12693 on: September 20, 2017, 10:14:44 am »

The whole sidebranch there left me with a silly idea as I was going to point out that someone calling themselves a nazi nowadays means they looked at what Hitler did and thought "well hell, that's a great idea!" but then I read the radical feminist bit and pictured nascent neo nazi numbnuts laying on their bed drawing hearts around Hitler's face and kicking their feet in the air like stereotypical teenage girls would if they were big into Hitler, so I have to thank everyone involved for the wonderfully absurd image they helped produce.
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Harry Baldman

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Re: AmeriPol: GOP attempting ACA repeal again.
« Reply #12694 on: September 20, 2017, 10:24:19 am »

With apologies to smjjames, I'll stop right after this last post. Something something hope they don't repeal ACA this time around.

I disagree. I think Harry has the right intentions, but he hasn't actually demonstrated or shown any sources that demonstrate that reality does in fact work the way he suggests it works. Other posters have mentioned (I forget whom sorry and am too tired to check all posts) that the type of tactics used actually strengthen the fringe groups mentioned.

It's an idea rooted in the paradox of tolerance, which is the thought that you shouldn't let people who want to shit in your well have access to it in the interests of those who'd like to drink from it - to protect the tools we use to ensure tolerance they must logically be insulated from intolerant forces making use of them in bad faith. Nazis fortunately are just about the most obviously bad faith group out there, so luckily we can skip the part where we deem them unworthy from on high.

And I wasn't really advocating punching Nazis specifically, just explaining the rationale behind ostracizing Nazis, of which punching is a completely nonessential part (identifying Nazi-allied rhetoric and appropriately calling that shit out, taking a unified front against it, that's the key part).

But it's weird you should mention sources since:

Think about other groups with victimhood conspiracy theories or self-identities, how do they react when people are openly hostile? e.g. for example if men are more hostile to radical feminists, does that in fact make them less radical feminists? Or does it make them more radical feminists? Of couse the latter is true. If a theory is self-evident it should also be universal, e.g. if you say "punch a nazi" suppresses Nazis but the same attitude doesn't suppress other groups such as Radfems, then you need to have a coherent theory explaining the difference, or you're merely appealling to special pleading.

Feminism is an interesting example of ostracism and abuse being effective for a terrible purpose - feminists have been dragged collectively through the mud so hard in recent years (not helped by the occasional bad feminist, but bad feminists have always been a thing and this hasn't really changed significantly in recent years) that according to your own source feminism is about as popular as the goddamn K.K.K.! The credibility of feminism in popular discourse - at least when outright described as feminism - seems to be at an all-time low as a direct result of the mobilization and tireless activism of perhaps as few as ten thousand dedicated internet shitlords!

Remember, the point is to exclude Nazis, not convert them, and make sure Nazism, white nationalism, racial realism, the Great Replacement and any other cockamamie bullshit they come up with become and/or remain unusable in discourse much like how the very notion of feminism provokes eyerolls from people today. Essentially, make sure the fringe remains the fringe and doesn't contaminate the broader pool, which is unfortunately already happening with Trump's election.
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Max™

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Re: AmeriPol: GOP attempting ACA repeal again.
« Reply #12695 on: September 20, 2017, 10:28:34 am »

Oh, and again I do agree with Harry there, but the best part of the punching is that so many of them just do nazi it coming.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: AmeriPol: GOP attempting ACA repeal again.
« Reply #12696 on: September 20, 2017, 10:29:00 am »

Oh my god, will you losers stop trying to all have the last word on nazi punching? Make AmeriPol Great Again!
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
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Max™

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Re: AmeriPol: GOP attempting ACA repeal again.
« Reply #12697 on: September 20, 2017, 10:32:10 am »

I just can nazi an end to it, sorry.
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Starver

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Re: AmeriPol: GOP attempting ACA repeal again.
« Reply #12698 on: September 20, 2017, 10:55:01 am »

Nazi radfems, huh?? And Reelya, PLEASE make your own topic! I've said repeatedly to move on!.... I'm fine with the discussion itself, but it's not particularily relevant to politics.
Until that thread is created, I'm putting this diversion here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcMd1F1acSo

* Warning: Contains a certain vintage of British comedy - And most people here probably don't know who Barbara Castle even is. Even if you're UKian, if you're too young... *
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: AmeriPol: GOP attempting ACA repeal again.
« Reply #12699 on: September 20, 2017, 11:02:34 am »

I just can nazi an end to it, sorry.

Fasce it guys, this punning is not goering anywhere. I´m unwilling to participate in this any furher.
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misko27

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Re: AmeriPol: GOP attempting ACA repeal again.
« Reply #12700 on: September 20, 2017, 11:54:15 am »

Nazi radfems, huh?? And Reelya, PLEASE make your own topic! I've said repeatedly to move on!.... I'm fine with the discussion itself, but it's not particularily relevant to politics.
Until that thread is created...
Be the change you want to see in the world.
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The Age of Man is over. It is the Fire's turn now

Max™

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Re: AmeriPol: GOP attempting ACA repeal again.
« Reply #12701 on: September 20, 2017, 03:06:12 pm »

I just can nazi an end to it, sorry.

Fasce it guys, this punning is not goering anywhere. I´m unwilling to participate in this any furher.
I think you made the reich call herr.
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Hanslanda

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Re: AmeriPol: GOP attempting ACA repeal again.
« Reply #12702 on: September 20, 2017, 03:25:57 pm »

Bay12 at our finest. 'Stahp nazi talk plz' que immediate hurricane of nazi puns.
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Well, we could put two and two together and write a book: "The Shit that Hans and Max Did: You Won't Believe This Shit."
He's fucking with us.

Reelya

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Re: AmeriPol: GOP attempting ACA repeal again.
« Reply #12703 on: September 20, 2017, 03:29:01 pm »

So far the only arguments I've seen is that it would be nice if open hostility to Nazis was supressing Nazis. e.g. the tactic is justified based purely on having a good intention rather than having any proof that the tactic achieves the goals that are claimed. I've not see any evidence that this actually works like it "says on the box", and have every reason to think, from previous experiences and knowlege of history that it actually works the opposite of that claimed.
>.> A huge and ideologically varied chunk of the world's population literally used open hostility to suppress nazis, you know this.

Effectively mass-murdering those you strongly disagree with is an option, I'll admit. But it's kinda extreme and can end up turning you into the thing you despise. See example of Guantanamo / Abu Graihb.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 03:32:21 pm by Reelya »
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Hanslanda

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Re: AmeriPol: GOP attempting ACA repeal again.
« Reply #12704 on: September 20, 2017, 03:30:55 pm »

So far the only arguments I've seen is that it would be nice if open hostility to Nazis was supressing Nazis. e.g. the tactic is justified based purely on having a good intention rather than having any proof that the tactic achieves the goals that are claimed. I've not see any evidence that this actually works like it "says on the box", and have every reason to think, from previous experiences and knowlege of history that it actually works the opposite of that claimed.
>.> A huge and ideologically varied chunk of the world's population literally used open hostility to suppress nazis, you know this.

Effectively mass-murdering those you strongly disagree with is an option, I'll admit. But it's kinda extreme and can end up turning you into the thing you despise. See example of Guantanamo / Abu Graihb.

Hey smj asked you to take it elsewhere please.
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Well, we could put two and two together and write a book: "The Shit that Hans and Max Did: You Won't Believe This Shit."
He's fucking with us.
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