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[Max™]

IIRC the guy in that video who got laid out had, before that video, been harrassing (both physically and verbally) minorities in the area. Including throwing a banana at a black guy and calling him an ape or monkey.

He had indeed been doing just that, and was actually making a "come and get some" taunt before the big guy walked up at which point he changed it to "no wait, perhaps civil discourse is the wisest route for ou-" and then he got his shit smacked.

Perhaps he realized the error of his ways in the moment before everything went all stars and darkness and he woke up wondering why the world was sideways.

Perhaps he won't learn anything from this event and will still pick fights with big antifa dudes because maybe he gets off on being knocked the fuck out, I doubt it though, it ain't fun.

I don't really think there's a problem with a pattern wherein actual internet tough guys decide to go full retard, nazi up, and get their shit smacked for it. Not sure if you've ever had a guy a foot or so taller than you pop you in the jaw, but it ain't fun, and generally it discourages doing whatever the hell you were doing around that guy which led to getting smacked, crazy idea huh?

Now, I've never earned a "stop being a nazi" punch, and indeed the vast majority of fights I've picked were due to misinterpreting what body language I should use around other guys. So after lots of misunderstandings, several great friendships, and a lot of practice later I'm very familiar with what it is like to get hit and hit others. I'm not a fan of either, but I'm less of a fan of folks who like to go around claiming to be and acting like members of a group that actively set about exterminating groups of people for not being white, because that's the nazi endgame, that's where this shit goes.

Also, holy fuck, did he really say "rocket guy" at the United Nations?

[smjjames]

We had the semantics discussion on social democracy vs socialism already several weeks ago.....

Also, holy fuck, did he really say "rocket guy" at the United Nations?

Yep.

[Max™]

...WHAT THE FUCK IS HAPPENING WITH REALITY... goddamn, twitter douche vs rocket guy, nazis in charlottesville with torches, fucking juggalos marching in D.C., what's next?

Hell, I saw this article title: Government ethics office says it will stick with ban on anonymous gifts and had to go back across it three fucking times before I realized it wasn't talking about a ban on anonymous .gifs because that is a thing that could happen in the white house now I think!

[Descan]

Especially because Russia (already? was talking about? wanted to?) ban memes and jokes that portray public figures (political officials?) as contrary to their real personality.

Like that meme of Putin going "I am GAY GAY GAY, I like LONG BIG COCKS, I am a SUPER SUPER GAY, I like LONG BIG COCKS!"

[Harry Baldman]

[...] fucking juggalos marching in D.C., [...]

You know, it's actually quite heartwarming to see the extent to which juggalos are being rehabilitated in the eyes of left-wing commentators. Who would have thought they'd be the likeliest link between them and the working class?

[MorleyDev]

It's not just Juggalos in the news, it's ICP mustering up more people in a political rally in DC than the President of the USA.

Reality has checked out, would the last one to leave remember to put up the chairs and turn out the lights?

EDIT: Oh my glob, the series of photos the BBC went with for the Trump/UN thing. Glorious.
1. Sitting down on toilet.
2. Oh god my stomach.
3. Oh it's a painful one!
4. Wait I think it's done.
5. Phew, it's done.
6. Oh god it's not done!

MorleyDev has it right.

And that's the most important thing of all

[scriver]

Now, I've never earned a "stop being a nazi" punch, and indeed the vast majority of fights I've picked were due to misinterpreting what body language I should use around other guys. So after lots of misunderstandings, several great friendships, and a lot of practice later I'm very familiar with what it is like to get hit and hit others.

Lol, no, watching animus don't count.

[Madman198237]

Why would anyone justify wanting the Nazis around?

Honestly, people, that discussion might've (apparently) ended in this thread, for now, but take a look at what happens when an ideology is SUCCESSFUL. If Germany had been left to conquer Europe, or wherever else it might've eventually conquered, there'd be Nazism springing up across the world, just like democracy and, later, communism did. Now, yes, it's sometimes because of the big nations with those philosophies promoting their ideologies, but GUESS WHAT? Nazi Germany would've been the same thing.

Usually if someone is so sunk into the depths of fanatical idiocy that they would advocate anything even CLOSE to Hitler's policies, specifically the Final Solution, they need a *lot* more than a conversation, they need psychological help.

Seriously, you can't change ideologies with fists, so drop the conversation.

Both of you are just being fools at this point, scriver, Max. Mostly you, scriver. You don't know what Max looks like, what he's done, nothing. So, leave it alone, because it's a pointless debate that CAN'T BE ENDED unless one or both of you just stops.

Because there are no facts involved, just opinions, and you can keep spewing those til the end of time.


^^^Oh crap, I just summarized most of politics in a political thread.
Does this mean I win?

[Max™]

[...] fucking juggalos marching in D.C., [...]

You know, it's actually quite heartwarming to see the extent to which juggalos are being rehabilitated in the eyes of left-wing commentators. Who would have thought they'd be the likeliest link between them and the working class?

I remember how weird it was learning one of the trailer park kids called themselves a "diehard juggalo" like, fuck, damn near 20 years ago now? I think he has kids that would have been old enough to be at that march now, assuming it's a hereditary condition, fucking hell.

Now, I've never earned a "stop being a nazi" punch, and indeed the vast majority of fights I've picked were due to misinterpreting what body language I should use around other guys. So after lots of misunderstandings, several great friendships, and a lot of practice later I'm very familiar with what it is like to get hit and hit others.

Lol, no, watching animus don't count.

For the life of me I can't figure out what watching animus means, like are you going with Jung or an rpg or something?

[MorleyDev]

Usually if someone is so sunk into the depths of fanatical idiocy that they would advocate anything even CLOSE to Hitler's policies, specifically the Final Solution, they need a *lot* more than a conversation, they need psychological help.

Extremist organisations prey on the vulnerable for a reason. There are Far Right members who are just people who do psychological help, or need acceptance, or who do really just need a conversation. Some are just too deep in to get themselves out without help.

And yes, you have your unrepentant scumbags too.

[Harry Baldman]

It's not just Juggalos in the news, it's ICP mustering up more people in a political rally in DC than the President of the USA.

Reality has checked out, would the last one to leave remember to put up the chairs and turn out the lights?

It helps that they have a legitimate and important grievance, which is that they're mistakenly classified as a gang by the FBI, a fact that has unfortunate ramifications for many a juggalo in terms of retaining custody of their children, employment and other spheres of living. That, and they're a community with what is by now a fairly rich and barely examined history and set of traditions. Some of them are white people who are legitimately being discriminated against based on cultural factors on a federal level! It's amazing to see them contextualized and discussed as opposed to being thought of as a complete joke.

[Max™]

I knew I shoulda punched more juggalos back in the day, faygo swilling motherfuckers.

[smjjames]

Usually if someone is so sunk into the depths of fanatical idiocy that they would advocate anything even CLOSE to Hitler's policies, specifically the Final Solution, they need a *lot* more than a conversation, they need psychological help.

Extremist organisations prey on the vulnerable for a reason. There are Far Right members who are just people who do psychological help, or need acceptance, or who do really just need a conversation .

Well, the person in the first link actually might need some psychological help because of the bullying that she encountered, but hers is a more complex situation than just acceptance and some help for the mental scars.

You are correct on extremists groups preying on the vulnerable. You know how it seems like terrorists (the lone wolf ones mostly) keep having (not 100% of the time) mental issues that crop up or are generally disturbed/troubled people? It's the same thing.

[Reelya]

I'm not asking you to agree. I'm not asking you to punch Nazis. I'm asking you (and a lot of other people) to stop treating the people who are willing to go there as part of the problem, rather than...y'know, the ACTUAL FUCKING NAZIS. Otherwise, you're no different than Trump with his "both sides are equally to blame" Charlottesville bullshit.

The main argument I've heard against the "punch a nazi" meme is that people willing to go there have an ever-extending set of people who count as "nazis", e.g. the other half of the country e.g. "every man woman and child who didn't vote for Hillary" wouldn't be an incorrect assessment of the people considered Nazi-enough to punch, by the core group most likely to go punching Nazis.

So while it's easy to justify "punch a nazi" on "purely literal terms", because actual nazis are vile and dangerous, "purely literal terms" are almost always a fallacious argument. What they actually mean by "punch a nazi" is "punch all Republicans", because bona fide actual Nazis are rare enough to not really need a lot of punching to keep them down even in the worst-case scenario.

[MorleyDev]

Well, the person in the first link actually might need some psychological help because of the bullying that she encountered, but hers is a more complex situation than just acceptance and some help for the mental scars.

They're all complex situations. Comes with being human. My point was just that there are people amongst those groups who, given the chance, can change. Can be redeemed. And a recurring theme amongst the stories tends to be actually meeting and interacting with the people they taught themselves to hate.

Now, do they deserve that chance for redemption? I'd say nobody ever deserves it, and that's the whole point. If enough of those chances get created, then that removes the core foundation for the extremism and cripples the movement.