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[Dunamisdeos]

I like it when people react with unbridled hostility to the tiniest of perceived slights. It's a plus in any discussion.

What do you think a summary is, exactly?

[EnigmaticHat]

Not being a blatant apologist for Joe Arpaio?  Like seriously, you don't see any change in meaning between Neo's clipped quote and the original passage?

Edit: To be clear, overcrowded prisons are a thing in America.  Its terrible but its not something I would say is any one person's crime.  The problems that me and others in this thread have with Joe Arpaio's self proclaimed concentration camp, is literally every single thing about a concentration camp except the one thing Neo chose to quote.  To paraphrase Jon Oliver: "What we have here is a reverse Godwin: if you don't mention the nazis, you automatically lose the argument."

[Neonivek]

What world do you live in that looks like an effective summary of the quote?

I was separating it from an "Internment camp". Those are the two conditions that separate it from a concentration camp.

Since let me give you the same definition... REMOVE the conditions I ALREADY listed AND the fluff / "Sometimes"
-Fluff is meant to HELP put context into what someone might mean when they use the word. Hence why the definition of sexism refers to women even though it can apply to both.

a place where large numbers of people are imprisoned

And there you go.

The problems that me and others in this thread have with Joe Arpaio's self proclaimed concentration camp, is literally every single thing about a concentration camp except the one thing Neo chose to quote

In other words bringing history into it. Past transgressions and transplanting it onto what is currently happening whether or not it applies.

It being a concentration camp is serious... But it isn't "Mass execution, slave labor, whipping" serious (or if it is... What the heck happened?)

[Dunamisdeos]

Are you two for real here? I'm sure the people who were stuck in a camp and/or prison feel much better knowing there are people ready to debate the precise definition of the horrific rotten enclosure they were kept in, just to make sure that their personal hell is properly categorized.

He forced them into a tiny, packed place with sub-human food and conditions. He's not any more or less of monster whatever you name the filthy hole he kept human beings in.

Like if the Nazis killed people in a meadow instead of a concentration camp it would have mattered somehow. Joe Arpaio is a monster, and frankly the racism is only the tip of the iceberg with him.

[Neonivek]

Only saying that him recognizing that these things are concentration camps, doesn't mean he is murdering people.

But do you have some evidence he was the one who created these concentration camps entirely on his own volition?

I only want the facts not the "Racism, Sexism, Homophobia" song. Regardless of how bad it makes you feel that I am not immediately pinning someone you personally dislike to a wall on just hearing that he ran the state concentration camps.

Since frankly... The second people start singing the chorus of "Racism, Sexism, Homophobia", chances are they are being less than objective... Or shall we get out White Supremacist Toddler again?

[Dunamisdeos]

If by "of his own volition" you mean "was aware of and supported their existence" then yes. There was a court case on the matter.

It still wouldn't matter, that's like saying Hitler didn't push the gas button so he's in the clear. He was aware of and supported the actions taken under his authority.

[misko27]

Only saying that him recognizing that these things are concentration camps, doesn't mean he is murdering people.

But do you have some evidence he was the one who created these concentration camps entirely on his own volition?

Is a conviction in a court of law sufficient evidence Neo?

[Neonivek]

If by "of his own volition" you mean "was aware of and supported their existence" then yes. There was a court case on the matter.

It still wouldn't matter, that's like saying Hitler didn't push the gas button so he's in the clear. He was aware of and supported the actions taken under his authority.

He supported illegal immigrants being sent to concentration camps in order to remove them... and how is this racism?

Or did he go on a tirade on how filthy Mexicans were at the same time? Which isn't entirely unlikely.

Edit: Just did my research. This isn't about the Illegal Immigrant Concentration camps? Huh... This is an emergency prison camp... that was never fixed...

Is a conviction in a court of law sufficient evidence Neo?

Yes. Can you show me where he was convicted of murder?

Just the facts please.

---

Here we go... This is what I gathered so far.

So the "Concentration Camp" was built as an emergency provision against overcrowding, it was meant to be temporary but due to "America Sucks" there was never any alleviation and so it was up for 20 years.

The main issue with it versus any ordinary prison (It isn't Rotten) is that it gets exceptionally hot and the majority of the prison is an outdoor prison.

Otherwise it acts like an ordinary prison.

[Lord Shonus]

It is important here to distinguish between a "concentration camp" and an "extermination camp". Due to the camps of the Third Reich, we reflexively tend to consider the two to be identical, but the original "Concentration Camps" Britain used in the Boer War were exactly the same as the "Internment Camps" the US used in the Philippine-American War and WWII - something to concentrate people to keep them out of the way. While the latter are very far from nice, the purpose is different, and it is rhetorically dangerous to use the terms carelessly.

Granted, in this case the person using the term carelessly was the person running them, but it still pays to keep this in mind.

[Neonivek]

In all fairness the lack of heat control was a serious issue. Though TO MY KNOWLEDGE there was nothing Joe could do about that. It is up to private parties or the federal government to build new prisons.

Though from what I read, they also dispensed towels... Had cool spots, and AC showers. (though that is likely because they would have been shut down on the spot without those)

[Dunamisdeos]

We are talking about the conditions in which he sent people to prison, not murder. Not to be blunt, but you know the difference because you just looked it up.

Secondly, a large number of the inmates were NOT illegal immigrants. They were simply Hispanic, and treated differently than non-Hispanics by the police and judicial system under his authority. Thirdly, a number of people who were never even sent to were physically abused.

And no, I'm not going to troll about the internet for the hundreds of links to actual court cases, newspaper articles, and documents that exist in reference to Joe Arpaio. Go look it up yourself, since you apparently haven't. We all did. Check Wikipedia if you're feeling lazy (We all probably did).

Here's a list of Arizona state prisons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arizona_state_prisons

[Trekkin]

In all fairness the lack of heat control was a serious issue. Though TO MY KNOWLEDGE there was nothing Joe could do about that. It is up to private parties or the federal government to build new prisons.

You are missing part of the reason it became overcrowded in the first place: Arpaio had his officers detain people on suspicion of being illegal immigrants, in some cases for 18 months, when the proper procedure is in fact to turn them over to federal authorities. A judge, having examined the particulars of this practice, determined that Arpaio's conditions for suspecting someone of illegal immigrant status constituted racial profiling.

[Neonivek]

https://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=Joe+Arpaio+convicted+of+murder&oq=Joe+Arpaio+convicted+of+murder&gs_l=psy-ab.3...493447.507458.0.507927.30.30.0.0.0.0.245.3022.16j12j1.29.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..1.18.2072...0j0i131k1j0i67k1j0i46i67k1j46i67k1j0i3k1j33i160k1j33i21k1.a8q5zh-0Yuc

Yeah my research gets nothing Dunamisdeos. Also court cases involving lawmakers are not unusual... if he arrests someone he will be involved.

If a police officer needs to use force they will also be on the case.

Secondly, a large number of the inmates were NOT illegal immigrants

Yeah, I honestly thought they were MUCH worse, but after research this isn't about the illegal immigrant internment camps.

Thirdly, a number of people who were never even sent to were physically abused

Can we have a translation?

You are missing part of the reason it became overcrowded in the first place: Arpaio had his officers detain people on suspicion of being illegal immigrants, in some cases for 18 months, when the proper procedure is in fact to turn them over to federal authorities. A judge, having examined the particulars of this practice, determined that Arpaio's conditions for suspecting someone of illegal immigrant status constituted racial profiling.

But not criminally. But yes that is a problem indeed.

---

But profiling doesn't get you to "HITLER" levels.

[SalmonGod]

Yes. Can you show me where he was convicted of murder?

Just the facts please.

I'm saving this for the next time the supposedly horrible violence of the radical left comes up for debate.

You know... like next time we're talking about how nazis should be confronted when they organize in public, and you respond with stuff like "Yes, we should murder everyone we don't agree with in their homes."

[Neonivek]

Yes. Can you show me where he was convicted of murder?

Just the facts please.

I'm saving this for the next time the supposedly horrible violence of the radical left comes up for debate.

You know... like next time we're talking about how nazis should be confronted when they organize in public, and you respond with stuff like "Yes, we should murder everyone we don't agree with in their homes."

I already looked it up. He killed no one.

But if you want some horrible violence from the radical left I have enough of that for days. Trust me, I've been holding back mostly because no one wants to watch people getting hurt.

THAT and it is the same deflection every time: "Ohh they are just extremists and outliers", which honestly I should use that on Nazis next time