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[Trekkin]

I'll put my money where my mouth is and offer an open bet to anyone in this thread who wants to take me up on this.

100 of my British pounds says the US will not implode into a civil war before the trump presidency is over.

In the interest of clarity, what are you defining as a civil war (versus, say, civil unrest) for the purposes of this bet?

[Dorsidwarf]

I'll put my money where my mouth is and offer an open bet to anyone in this thread who wants to take me up on this.

100 of my British pounds says the US will not implode into a civil war before the trump presidency is over.

In the interest of clarity, what are you defining as a civil war (versus, say, civil unrest) for the purposes of this bet?

I think the implication from the people saying CIVIL WAR IMMINENT  is one like the first civil war, so let's peg it at "states seceeding resulting in armed conflict between them and the Us military"

[misko27]

Oh what, you think the Civil War you're sure is coming is going to be over by Christmas or something like that?

In some way, it's a testament to how peaceful our societies have become that some shouting is considered the beginning of a civil war.

You're telling me. It's a testament to the power of the internet too though: when you have the ability to seek out and view only the loudest, angriest, most unreasonable voices, of course, you'lll think the worlds ending. No one ever looks for images of quiet protests where there were only peaceful civil disobedience and people making well-thought-out and reasonable points.

[sluissa]

After seeing it, I have the opinion the dude was doing it to intentionally provoke a response... and he got one. A vulgar and disgusting one worse than anything he did on his own. Still, that's what he probably wanted, given the smirk you see several times. I don't really have any respect for him. If anything more that he's willing to go that far to be a troll about the whole thing than anything else. But the people "protesting him" were just inhuman about the whole thing. I have absolutely no respect there at all.

He got yelled at. Is that really a "inhuman" thing to do? Imagine if someone had decided to really calmy and respectfully stand to attention with a ISIS flag two weeks after the boston bombing that he would have gotten away with just being shouted at?

They have given up on attempting any sort of reason or discourse. They've given up one of the primary things that makes us human. Screaming incoherently is what you expect from an infant, maybe an untrained child. Not adults. Not fully fledged human beings.

[Sheb]

In some way, it's a testament to how peaceful our societies have become that some shouting is considered the beginning of a civil war.

You're telling me. It's a testament to the power of the internet too though: when you have the ability to seek out and view only the loudest, angriest, most unreasonable voices, of course, you'lll think the worlds ending. No one ever looks for images of quiet protests where there were only peaceful civil disobedience and people making well-thought-out and reasonable points.

Well, it's not just that. In the most recent accident, nothing happened apart from some protesters shouting at an obvious troll.

[milo christiansen]

What about the hundreds of thousands of people who don't give a shit? A few angry idiots do not a civil war make.

[Dorsidwarf]

After seeing it, I have the opinion the dude was doing it to intentionally provoke a response... and he got one. A vulgar and disgusting one worse than anything he did on his own. Still, that's what he probably wanted, given the smirk you see several times. I don't really have any respect for him. If anything more that he's willing to go that far to be a troll about the whole thing than anything else. But the people "protesting him" were just inhuman about the whole thing. I have absolutely no respect there at all.

He got yelled at. Is that really a "inhuman" thing to do? Imagine if someone had decided to really calmy and respectfully stand to attention with a ISIS flag two weeks after the boston bombing that he would have gotten away with just being shouted at?

They have given up on attempting any sort of reason or discourse. They've given up one of the primary things that makes us human. Screaming incoherently is what you expect from an infant, maybe an untrained child. Not adults. Not fully fledged human beings.

It's also, like, incredibly common and pretty typical reaction to things that they find abhorrent to just shout them out. Besides, when both sides are entrenched in their positions and unwilling to compromise, angry shouting and shittalking is just about the least bad outcome.

[Sheb]

Black guy being beaten with sticks unprovoked.  Police officer standing and watching.  Others with their backs turned.

We've got one still picture. It isn't clear whether the officer is standing there or moving in to help. It isn't clear what started it, but he admits he was taking part in the "counter-protests" which pushed things to violence in the first place. Article is written on a site with a clear bias and written in a way that clearly steers the narrative in a certain direction. The whole thing stinks of bad journalism.

After seeing it, I have the opinion the dude was doing it to intentionally provoke a response... and he got one. A vulgar and disgusting one worse than anything he did on his own. Still, that's what he probably wanted, given the smirk you see several times. I don't really have any respect for him. If anything more that he's willing to go that far to be a troll about the whole thing than anything else. But the people "protesting him" were just inhuman about the whole thing. I have absolutely no respect there at all.

He got yelled at. Is that really a "inhuman" thing to do? Imagine if someone had decided to really calmy and respectfully stand to attention with a ISIS flag two weeks after the boston bombing that he would have gotten away with just being shouted at?

They have given up on attempting any sort of reason or discourse. They've given up one of the primary things that makes us human. Screaming incoherently is what you expect from an infant, maybe an untrained child. Not adults. Not fully fledged human beings.

Black guy get beaten up by white supremacists: "Well, he was a counter-protester!".
White guy decide to be a troll 10 days after a terror attack and get shouted at: "Look,at these people being angry about it! They're not even human anymore!"

[EnigmaticHat]

After seeing it, I have the opinion the dude was doing it to intentionally provoke a response... and he got one. A vulgar and disgusting one worse than anything he did on his own. Still, that's what he probably wanted, given the smirk you see several times. I don't really have any respect for him. If anything more that he's willing to go that far to be a troll about the whole thing than anything else. But the people "protesting him" were just inhuman about the whole thing. I have absolutely no respect there at all.

He got yelled at. Is that really a "inhuman" thing to do? Imagine if someone had decided to really calmy and respectfully stand to attention with a ISIS flag two weeks after the boston bombing that he would have gotten away with just being shouted at?

Its worse than that.  You forgot to add "cosplaying an islamic terrorist, just not an ISIS one".

What is so fucking bizarre to me is that within scant days of the attack, a bunch of right leaning public figures went "oh shit, for-realsies literal nazis" and then "you ain't uniting my right, assholes."  Politicians, CEOs associated with Trump, conservative media figures.  They've all seen the light.  This article was from Fox News. Within, the writer soullessly states that the president sent Fox News a memo that the president was correct in stating both sides were at fault, and then the writer softly but firmly whispers "no sir, you were not correct."  This article included this, and this is an actual quote from Fox News, that after his comment blaming"both sides" Trump faced

a crush of criticism from Republicans, Democrats and business leaders.

The article ended with this gem:

When asked to explain his Saturday comments about Charlottesville, Trump looked down at his notes and again read a section of his initial statement that denounced bigotry but did not single out white supremacists. He then tucked the paper back into his jacket pocket.

Like holy shit, Fox News or Colbert's writers?  You decide.

To be clear, Fox News would not have had a problem if Trump had said one side was at fault and it was neo-nazis and such.  Fox News' problem with Trump's press statement, is that it put blame on the counter protestors for the terrorist attack.  Fox News thinks its deplorable to blame antifa for what happened. So do conservative CEOs on Trump's manufacturing counsel, and red politicians in the deep south.  Yet somehow, and this is what's bizarre to me, longtime forumgoers on bay12 are still trying to state that things which the counterprotestors have done are comparable to what Unite the Right has done.  Just like, what the actual fuck?  Literal torch wielding mob of nazis, compared to people who's only strongly held political view is "we don't want fascism in the USA" and who have basically done nothing unless an ultra-right group is also present.  "Nazis go home" versus "the bitch deserved it."  That's not comparing a 100$ bill in the mail to 500$ one and saying they both suck, that's comparing your 100$ tax return to the letter from the bank telling you about the foreclosure.  And having to talk it out with someone about whether those things are equivalent.  We shouldn't still be talking about this.  We have near continuously been on the "but, liberal violence!" or "but, freedom of speech^tm!" thread of conversation for 10 days.  Fox fucking News isn't still on about this.  This is the front page of Fox New's politics section.  Note the articles criticizing Trump.  Note the lack of any commentary on antifa, confederate statues, or the counter protestors.  If you go on their website, click "U. S." and then click, actual news category Fox News has, "Personal Freedoms", the top article will be "Charlottesville rallier Cartwell reportedly surrenders to police."  Cartwell is a white nationalist.  This thread has taught me that people can express views to the right of Fox News on the political spectrum yet still claim with a straight face to be moderate.  Or "hate both sides", which is nothing more than adding another layer of obfuscating irony.

Edit: Read what Cartwell is accused of.  From the lips of Fox News, read what he said.  And such even cursory googling will reveal countless other similar comments from Unite the Right protestors.  Salmongod pointed it out, the protestors got a tiny but shrill internet outcry of "the bitch deserved it" less than an hour after the terror attack.  Why is it that any act of protest by antifa, be it standing silently with signs, shouting, vandalism, is always a slippery slope?  That literally hundreds of times in the last month alone, people have helpfully "brought up", you know, just played devil's advocate, I'm-not-on-any-side-just-bringing-it-up-for-consideration, that the left cannot be allowed to _____ or soon we'll _____.  Where the first blank could be something as simple as an angry internet post or wanting LGBT safe spaces on college campuses and the second blank could be anything up to and including "start lynching again" (but usually destroy free speech, that's the standby).  And of course its not about right or left, naturally, if the right was causing a slippery slope towards anarchy or feral supreme court judges pissing on the first amendment or whatever, you'd point that out as well.  Yet now, we have "Unite the Right," also known as "I was tired of Godwin so I made him irrelevant," "you thought NAMBLA was bad, hold my beer," or "fuck but London Bridge looked like a good time."  And yet, no slippery slope.  If allowed to continue in peace, nothing bad will happen from Unite the Right.  You know, so very many people here care so very passionately about the ethics of protesting, and its really inspiring, but I'm a little disappointed they don't seem to care what Unite the Right will do to our political discussion.  I mean its good that Unite the Right is taking action against those counter protestors that are causing all those problems, but we need to show our support for them more fully.  I wouldn't want anyone to say nasty things to them while they beat black people with tiki torches, openly encourage terrorists, or try to imply that slavery was a footnote in history.

[smjjames]

I'll put my money where my mouth is and offer an open bet to anyone in this thread who wants to take me up on this.

100 of my British pounds says the US will not implode into a civil war before the trump presidency is over.

In the interest of clarity, what are you defining as a civil war (versus, say, civil unrest) for the purposes of this bet?

I think the implication from the people saying CIVIL WAR IMMINENT  is one like the first civil war, so let's peg it at "states seceeding resulting in armed conflict between them and the Us military"

As far as that goes. The whole Calexit business is no more, the campaign for it folded in April and thus, the issue is not slated to be on the ballot. The Calexit thing was just a whole bunch of chestbeating and venting anyway, healthy venting that is, since a seccession wouldn't go anywhere.

Although..... There is this ballot initiative to divide California into three states which is under official review. Then again, the 'how' of dividing California should be up for debate and Tulare county is somehow left out, and it's the product of one guy.

edit: 6 new replies, heh.

edit2: I wonder how often Texas gets ballot initiatives to split it up into sections? Yeah, I know, it'd be like, heresy, but just wondering.

[Max™]

I'll put my money where my mouth is and offer an open bet to anyone in this thread who wants to take me up on this.

100 of my British pounds says the US will not implode into a civil war before the trump presidency is over.

Pretty sure you guys use kilograms over there.

edit2: I wonder how often Texas gets ballot initiatives to split it up into sections? Yeah, I know, it'd be like, heresy, but just wondering.

That would, by definition, be messing with Texas, and you just don't do that sort of thing.

[Paxiecrunchle]

As a California native I don't actually see breaking the state up into three parts as being a good ide.

However I came here for a diffrent reason, a lot of the political commentators I've been following keep mentioning someone named "George Soros" did he do something? since I never heard of him before say 2015.

Edit: I just looked him up, he seems to be some sort of political investor, though I still don't understand why so many seem to hate him.

[smjjames]

As a California native I don't actually see breaking the state up into three parts as being a good ide.

I'm a California native too, and I don't agree with only one person deciding how to divide up California anyway, if we were to divide up the state that is. Besides, it'll probably be tossed out as invalid because I noticed that he left out one county.

However I came here for a diffrent reason, a lot of the political commentators I've been following keep mentioning someone named "George Soros" did he do something? since I never heard of him before say 2015.

Edit: I just looked him up, he seems to be some sort of political investor, though I still don't understand why so many seem to hate him.

Not sure either, he's sort of the conservative boogeyman in the same way the Koch brothers are for liberals I think. He's also badly disliked in Hungary.

[Sheb]

As a California native I don't actually see breaking the state up into three parts as being a good ide.

However I came here for a diffrent reason, a lot of the political commentators I've been following keep mentioning someone named "George Soros" did he do something? since I never heard of him before say 2015.

Edit: I just looked him up, he seems to be some sort of political investor, though I still don't understand why so many seem to hate him.

He is a Hungarian Jew that fled to the west and made a bunch of money as a trader. Since the fall of the soviet union, he spent a lot of money supporting civil society in the former east block and the like. Leftie hates him for being a currency trader that destroyed the bank of England in the 80's, anti-semites hates him because he's Jewish, and the right over the last few years has turned him into some kind of globalist boogeyman.

[Neonivek]

In some way, it's a testament to how peaceful our societies have become that some shouting is considered the beginning of a civil war.

You're telling me. It's a testament to the power of the internet too though: when you have the ability to seek out and view only the loudest, angriest, most unreasonable voices, of course, you'lll think the worlds ending. No one ever looks for images of quiet protests where there were only peaceful civil disobedience and people making well-thought-out and reasonable points.

Well, it's not just that. In the most recent accident, nothing happened apart from some protesters shouting at an obvious troll.

I love that it is "obvious troll". It is a clear deflection and once again it is being a "Thought Police". Were the other protestors just trolling? was Antifa trolling?

I mean YEAH he was smirking, but people were yelling and getting right into his face. It would be hard to keep a straight face through it all. I'd have been crying if I was him and laughing is one way people deal with tense situations.

But what was the criticism I got for saying that? OHH RIGHT! That I am being unfair to FEMINISM.

And even if he was a Troll, hypothetically. His actions should NOT have elicited this kind of response. You are "Victim Blaming" essentially.

Let me fetch that quote

I love how far you're willing to expand the benefit of the doubt to right-wing troll. Especially when you're so quick to attack feminists, BLM and other leftie for what they REALLY mean.

Sorry I outed BLM for shutting down the Gay Pride parade and completely misunderstanding the role of police within that parade.

Also helps that I am WAY more versed in Leftist Ideology and Social Justice than I am on most things in the right.