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[Neonivek]

To refer back to the old crime and drug thing again.

I do think there is, however, a false equivalency between opiate and MJ/Crack and why people are sympathetic to one but not to the other and it isn't about it being a "White" problem.

It is because the people who are addicted to opiates are often people who got addicted to their prescription medicine. As in they were non-criminals who sought out non-criminal medicine, got it, and then became addicted and needed to seek out more. (at least that is the perception).

Versus a group that, out of their own free will, sought an illegal substance.

That is why one group gets the sympathy and the other doesn't. Why one group is "We should help them" and the other is mostly "Well, they did it to themselves" (Well for MJ... for Crack there are social programs available)

Assuming I am reading the situation right.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Bannerman Bannon is out.

[SalmonGod]

As terrible as some people imagine Pence to be due to his position on LGBT rights and other things, he looks saintly compared to Trump right now. So, it's pretty damn hard to argue that Pence would be even worse than Trump right at this moment just because he's actually competent.

He is worse than Trump.  He's just competent enough to appear more reasonable at a glance, which makes all the difference in national politics.  And I still believe that makes him far more dangerous.  Someone like Trump stirs up universal opposition.  That dies down with someone like Pence, until all he has to worry about is standard party politics and special interest groups.  He'll operate a more stable government, but he'll also succeed at pushing his agendas. 

This is also why I still see Democrats as dangerous.  Because for all they're better on cultural issues, they don't face proper consequences on everything else where their behavior is still unacceptable, if moderately better than republicans.

Homeland Security and law enforcement are on alert & closely watching for any sign of trouble. Our borders are far tougher than ever before!

Borders do nothing if the trouble is already inside them.  Whoever you talk to (even islamophobes and white extremists), this is just meaningless as a solution to the 'problem'.

A distraction from something, maybe?

Seems more like trying to puff out his chest and look strong in response to Barcelona, but yes, it's trying to be a distraction.

Right now though we are suffering from an aversion to anything socialist-flavored in our government. Profit based healthcare, education, infrastructure, policing, prisons, defense, governance, these are fucking insane but we've got them all here, hurray!

Isn't that primarily on the Republican side? Even then, it's not as much of a 'touch of death' as it used to be, helped by the Republicans overusing the word during Obamas admin.

Ehh..... The old guard of the Democratic Party establishment is still strictly, unshakeably neoliberal capitalist.  See Nancy Pelosi's response when asked about this just a few months ago.  Hillary's stance is much the same, but she put more effort into avoiding stating it so bluntly.  They'll gladly take the opportunity to win empathy points by agreeing that there's problems that are bad.  But just as Pelosi showed in that video, it's clear when pushed on it that they don't believe in doing anything more about it than putting shame on the nebulous idea of people responsible (because they'll get drawn into that if things get too specific), putting soft, fragile, poorly enforced limitations on financial sector behaviors, and implementing welfare programs to band-aid capitalism's issues.  Anything systemically deeper than that is just as much taboo among Democrats (the party politicians more than the electorate) as it is among Republicans.

[smjjames]

As terrible as some people imagine Pence to be due to his position on LGBT rights and other things, he looks saintly compared to Trump right now. So, it's pretty damn hard to argue that Pence would be even worse than Trump right at this moment just because he's actually competent.

He is worse than Trump.  He's just competent enough to appear more reasonable at a glance, which makes all the difference in national politics.  And I still believe that makes him far more dangerous.  Someone like Trump stirs up universal opposition.  That dies down with someone like Pence, until all he has to worry about is standard party politics and special interest groups.  He'll operate a more stable government, but he'll also succeed at pushing his agendas. 

This is also why I still see Democrats as dangerous.  Because for all they're better on cultural issues, they don't face proper consequences on everything else where their behavior is still unacceptable, if moderately better than republicans.

Regarding the bolded part, you could say that of the Republicans as well, which is more of a problem with the political system than anything party specific.

[Frumple]

Generally because anything systematically deeper tends to involve higher costs than they're terribly willing to pay, heh. Particularly considering what has to be spent in those cases isn't exactly just money or political capital. Extra particularly if it's in anything approaching a short time frame, because that's all that plus a massive heaping pile of uncertainty and risk.

Dunno how much I'd actually blame them for that, though. You need the folks that are going to be cashing the checks that involves (which is, y'know, the general population) behind 'em, and they're currently very much not. Sometimes behind the general sentiment involved in pushing things in one area or another, but it's pretty consistent that that support withers pretty hard when specifics are brought out.

So y'get politicians wanting to keep the system pretty steady, but move towards meeting that sentiment inside it. Clinton vs. Sanders on financial reform, last year, ferex.

[Dunamisdeos]

Regarding the bolded part, you could say that of the Republicans as well, which is more of a problem with the political system than anything party specific.

I agree with that, but I do note that it is more of a problem with current Democrats. They ARE better on cultural/social issues, and they get free passes on things that would otherwise by condemned.

This is why I try very hard to just dislike all political parties equally. It's not a competition, they are all bad.

[SalmonGod]

This is also why I still see Democrats as dangerous.  Because for all they're better on cultural issues, they don't face proper consequences on everything else where their behavior is still unacceptable, if moderately better than republicans.

I meant this specifically in regards to politicians appearing to operate superficially with reasonableness and good faith.  Just that Democrat politicians tend to have this part down better than Republicans.

Generally because anything systematically deeper tends to involve higher costs than they're terribly willing to pay, heh. Particularly considering what has to be spent in those cases isn't exactly just money or political capital. Extra particularly if it's in anything approaching a short time frame, because that's all that plus a massive heaping pile of uncertainty and risk.

Dunno how much I'd actually blame them for that, though. You need the folks that are going to be cashing the checks that involves (which is, y'know, the general population) behind 'em, and they're currently very much not. Sometimes behind the general sentiment involved in pushing things in one area or another, but it's pretty consistent that that support withers pretty hard when specifics are brought out.

So y'get politicians wanting to keep the system pretty steady, but move towards meeting that sentiment inside it. Clinton vs. Sanders on financial reform, last year, ferex.

And I'm conflicted on this.  It's hard to give the benefit of the doubt on this topic when party leaders are willing to go "My party is capitalist - period" when asked how they feel about half a generation disagreeing, or when you have D politicians pushing things like the TPP, or participating in enforcement of capitalist externalities without any apparent second thought until they face protests.  I see them as inconsistent and two-faced on the subject, with few notable exceptions.

[birdy51]

Bannerman Bannon is out.

Good.

[smjjames]

@salmongod: As the saying goes "Republicans stand firm, Democrats bend with the wind." Which can be true in a general sense, but neither one has a monopoly on either thing.

Heh, CNN source says Kelly ain't done with the streamlining effort.

[hector13]

Aides with vague or undefined portfolios? Does that mean Ivanka and Jared?

[SalmonGod]

Meet another neo-nazi leader who was present in Charlottesville.

[Max™]

Not to pull a "what's wrong with kansas" here, but anyone nowadays who opposes efforts to unlatch the nails of capitalism from the necks of so many areas where it is plainly harmful--healthcare, education, and infrastructure stand out--is either getting rich off of it, or misinformed. Market competition doesn't serve the needs of the sick or injured, it doesn't serve the goal of instilling knowledge or having access to said knowledge, and it doesn't serve the basic task of ensuring necessary systems like roads and utilities are kept in good shape.

You want faster computers, new cuts and colors and fabrics in your clothes, better performing cars, more engaging video game systems, capitalism is gonna keep grinding them along that scale inexorably. Unfortunately part of that process involves a trend towards full automation, and it's awfully difficult to afford a car which you can use to find the hippest shops to get some new kicks at on your freshly upgraded computer or phone if there is no reason to have human employees.

Ideally Trump and his ilk would be the last gasp of the hypercapitalist fuckers and people would finally catch on that no, they do not even have a radar for you to register on, but even if they did, there would be no fucks to give about your situation, and no you aren't just a temporarily broke rich person who will totally catch up once their offal filters and drips and trickles down to you.

Maybe, just maybe people would look around and notice "wow, these slimy old bastards don't even care enough to pay lipservice to the idea that nazis are bad, they really must not give the slightest fuck about the rest of us if they don't even feel like pretending it's abhorrent to be a fucking nazi so fuck them right back" but I'm not expecting it.

[redwallzyl]

Capitalism's problem right now is that people see everything in an economic context, and when your a hammer everything starts looking like a nail.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

People knew capitalism was a bad idea before it even started being a major force. It's right there in Wealth of Nations.

The postcapitalist epoch is upon us with automation alone, let alone our cultural changes. The only thing we don't know is how many will die before people accept that.

[Neonivek]

People knew capitalism was a bad idea before it even started being a major force. It's right there in Wealth of Nations.

The postcapitalist epoch is upon us with automation alone, let alone our cultural changes. We only don't know how many will die before people accept that.

We aren't QUITE there yet. or anywhere close... unfortunately.