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[misko27]

I don't think their is such a thing as a left wing militia in the US.

Maybe not right now, but there's no rule against it in general. Just think of the Symbionese Liberation Army, the inspiration for Toady's LCS.

[Frumple]

Eh? No, there's definitely a few flapping around. Gods know I don't want to go digging at the moment for names, but there are some scattered around the country. End of the day, for all right-wingers are our prime source of domestic terrorism and the militias one of the notable contributors there, we do have left-wing examples of the same sort of thing. Just not as many, as well organized, funded, etc., etc.

[smjjames]

"The governor was referencing the weapons and tactical gear the members of various groups attending the rally had on their persons," Geller says. "I can assure you that the Virginia State Police personnel were equipped with more-than-adequate specialized tactical and protective gear for the purpose of fulfilling their duties to serve and protect those in attendance of the August 12 event in Charlottesville."

"we just chose not to."

Weren't some of those militia guys actually on the side of the counterprotesters? I saw somewhere that a few of them said they were. Also, if they were so scared of the dozen or so militia guys, then why didn't they deal with those militia guys? It's just a major copout to me.

I don't think their is such a thing as a left wing militia in the US.

A right-wing militia guy could support the counterprotestors because they don't like the neonazis.

Lemme try to find the thing I saw: edit: Not actually the link I saw before: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/15/charlottesville-militia-free-speech-violence They do slam the police in Charlottesville as well.

[SalmonGod]

Eh? No, there's definitely a few flapping around. Gods know I don't want to go digging at the moment for names, but there are some scattered around the country. End of the day, for all right-wingers are our prime source of domestic terrorism and the militias one of the notable contributors there, we do have left-wing examples of the same sort of thing. Just not as many, as well organized, funded, etc., etc.

And they tend to get shut down much more fiercely by the state.

[smjjames]

Eh? No, there's definitely a few flapping around. Gods know I don't want to go digging at the moment for names, but there are some scattered around the country. End of the day, for all right-wingers are our prime source of domestic terrorism and the militias one of the notable contributors there, we do have left-wing examples of the same sort of thing. Just not as many, as well organized, funded, etc., etc.

And they tend to get shut down much more fiercely by the state.

I wonder why right-wing groups don't get similar treatment, heh.

[Helgoland]

Right-wingers don't threaten the state itself. There's nothing surprising about it. If there was a right-wing movement advocating societal transformation as radical as that proposed by the leftist extremists, you could bet your ass they were going to be cracked down on as well.

[Frumple]

Uh. Heeelllgggoooo. The right wingers gone far enough to start doin' the militia thing in the US generally want to burn the government to the ground, set fire to the country's social order, and/or shatter the USA in a bunch of little pieces. They're damn sure advocating for as much or more societal transformation than your average left wing extremist, and they're also the ones most consistently actually challenging the state's monopoly on force (again -- they're the largest single bloc of domestic terrorists, here.) amongst all its other crap.

And they tend to get shut down much more fiercely by the state.

Oh aye, there is that. That TEVUS gander I took a bit back was pretty telling in the relative difference in proportion of "unknown" category stuff (basically junk they just didn't have certain sorts of info on) between right and left wing terror incidents. Cops got left wingers on lock, comparatively, but they seem a lot less on the ball 'bout their counterparts.

Lemme try to find the thing I saw: edit: Not actually the link I saw before: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/15/charlottesville-militia-free-speech-violence They do slam the police in Charlottesville as well.

That definitely was somethin' pretty striking in the near aftermath. Lotta' conservative folks jumping to condemn the cops, tryin' to propose the genocide idolaters would have been harmless if only the cops hadn't screwed up/been sidelined by nazis.

Quite possibly the thing that's struck me as most weird bit of this whole mess, honestly. However much it's true, normally you can't get right-wing talking heads off the police force's wang with a crowbar and hitched team of buffalo. Nazi gets loose from a swastika street party and they half seem quicker to slam the cops than they are the skinheads. Louder about it, too. Usually it wouldn't matter how the hell badly the cops cocked up, that lot'd be trying to spin things to downplay it and take a dump all over whoever the non-cop parties involved were.

All sorts of uncharitable as hell things that could be said about that, but I guess it's something like heartening that even most of the right wing'll throw shade at the cops when they drop the ball, so long as nazis are involved.

[Not good with names]

Right-wingers don't threaten the state itself. There's nothing surprising about it. If there was a right-wing movement advocating societal transformation as radical as that proposed by the leftist extremists, you could bet your ass they were going to be cracked down on as well.

Umm... isn't ethnic cleansing a little more extreme than socialism?  Sure, less radical than anarchy... but that's like saying you're less dead if you get shot in the head vs. getting a cruise missile through the chest.  (I mean, I wouldn't consider the Government legitimate if it endorsed that and I'm one of those center-left dudes that suck) 

[wierd]

"The governor was referencing the weapons and tactical gear the members of various groups attending the rally had on their persons," Geller says. "I can assure you that the Virginia State Police personnel were equipped with more-than-adequate specialized tactical and protective gear for the purpose of fulfilling their duties to serve and protect those in attendance of the August 12 event in Charlottesville."

"we just chose not to."

Weren't some of those militia guys actually on the side of the counterprotesters? I saw somewhere that a few of them said they were. Also, if they were so scared of the dozen or so militia guys, then why didn't they deal with those militia guys? It's just a major copout to me.

I don't think their is such a thing as a left wing militia in the US.

A right-wing militia guy could support the counterprotestors because they don't like the neonazis.

Lemme try to find the thing I saw: edit: Not actually the link I saw before: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/15/charlottesville-militia-free-speech-violence They do slam the police in Charlottesville as well.

The rhetoric he uses does not sound terribly right wing though. He sounds like a fairly sensible person who would prefer to not be called, but will answer when called, without much bias as to whom he will protect, as long as they remain peaceful.

I also note he says he and his group were treated with contempt by both antifa and Nazi factions.  What did I have to say about 3rd parties trying to put out fires like this? That they get immediately maligned by both opposing groups? Pretty sure I did.

This guy did the right thing by not retaliating to the actions of the angry mob they were trying to police. He wants peoples rights respected, both ways, and I commend that. Why malign him as a far right member?

[Helgoland]

I'm talking about their vision, their endgame. Now, I may be wrong, but are they opposed to private property, to keeping around the existing bodies of government (President, Senate, House), the capitalist way of doing business? Do they want to disestablish the quote-unquote traditional family in favor of radical social experimentation? Hell, do they  want to significantly mess with the social stratification at all, apart from lynching a couple politicians and Wall Street fat cats? Are they opposed to the place the military occupies (heh) in American society?


Hell, I'd wager most would agree that the state monopoly on violence should be a thing - once it's the right people wielding it.

[Neonivek]

UUUGH!!! MY HEART!!!

Goodness America's Left Wing is much more... sane than other countries.

---

I'm talking about their vision, their endgame. Now, I may be wrong, but are they opposed to private property, to keeping around the existing bodies of government (President, Senate, House), the capitalist way of doing business? Do they want to disestablish the quote-unquote traditional family in favor of radical social experimentation? Hell, do they  want to significantly mess with the social stratification at all, apart from lynching a couple politicians and Wall Street fat cats? Are they opposed to the place the military occupies (heh) in American society?

I thought Communism was just that the means of production is owned by the state. Not the non-existence of private property.

[Pancakes]

I'm curious, is not being strongly in favor of one side or the other considered bad nowadays? It seems to be so, at least to me, what with the whole "You're with us or against us" and "We need to be extreme in order to counter their extremism".

Frankly, I'm just disheartened by the whole situation

[smjjames]

Does third party groups trying to put out the fire include cops? Not surprising that they'd get maligned on both sides because both sides would say "You're not on our side!", whereas cops are usually recognized as being neutral, perhaps TOO neutral at times.

I'm talking about their vision, their endgame. Now, I may be wrong, but are they opposed to private property, to keeping around the existing bodies of government (President, Senate, House), the capitalist way of doing business? Do they want to disestablish the quote-unquote traditional family in favor of radical social experimentation? Hell, do they  want to significantly mess with the social stratification at all, apart from lynching a couple politicians and Wall Street fat cats? Are they opposed to the place the military occupies (heh) in American society?

Which one are you talking about, left wing or right wing? And I mean on the American spectrum, not European spectrum. Sometimes they can be indistingushable.

Though right-wing militias tend to be more focused on reflexively protecting the second amendment against percieved government aggression on it.

[wierd]

Your typical (no, the crazy gun but stereotype us not typical, despite the MSM and Hollywood) militia group organizes under a common banner of "should the state ever fail in its civic duty to uphold the law, protect the rights of the citizenry, or repel a hostile force, we can attend to the service of our country."

It is often popularized by the MSM and Hollywood that these are paramilitary groups who threaten the government with overthrow, but actually regular militia groups exclude people with such ideas, as they are incompatible with the goals of those groups. Granted, non regular "militia" exists, and does tend toward absurdity in that vein, and as much as it may seem a no true Scotsman, it really is not when asserting that they are not the same thing.

I do not believe that the guy interviewed by that reporter would condone violent upheaval of social order.

[Neonivek]

Plus I think that even if you included the entire NRA members... they probably couldn't even storm the White House.

It is only scary to listen to people talk about shooting people if America ever was co-opted.

The issue is that I believe the whole Militia thing was if the US was taken over by say... a foreign power or a internal terrorist group... Not if America slipped in their ideals.