Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[EnigmaticHat]

Are there people who, if they had not seen this statue, would not have become white supremacists? Are we going to prevent future white supremacy by removing a monument that reminds us of that time where hate was allowed to reach its logical end and fields upon fields were filled with the resulting dead?

I think that the white supremacists venerate the statue, not the statue to the supremacists. By taking it down I think we are depriving future generations a tool with which to remember. If we remove the incident from the public eye, it is only a matter of time when it will be forgotten and allowed to happen again.

In essence, it should be kept specifically because it is jarring to our current society.

Remembering and idealizing are not the same thing.  There's a difference between a WW2 musuem and building a memorial with a statue in full WW2 German uniform.

Also, I'd say that's a bit of a double standard.  We can't tear down the statue because vague cultural reasons aren't good enough, there has to be a concrete reason.  But the benefit you gave for keeping the statue IS a vague cultural value.  Is tearing down the statue going to prevent white supremacists in the future?

Edit: Less confrontational wording

[Neonivek]

I'm not crazy enough to delve into the "it's a massive left wing conspiracy" garbage

Hardly a conspiracy. It is a narrative.

People like to frame todays problems onto the past.... OR try to justify or "enhance" the past.

It is the same reason why we tell WW2 as if Hitler was a magic wizard...

 

building a memorial with a statue in full WW2 German uniform

It exists.

[wierd]

Naw, occam's razor applies.  The answer with the least complication is usually the truth.  It is less complicated that somebody faked an image, with the intent to enrage (Only a single actor required, no collaboration), than for all the mainstream media to systemically hush up about it. (Many actors, requires mass collaboration.)

What i find suspicious, is that the MSM did not report on the hoax image...

[WealthyRadish]

How simplistic your must think history or historical significance is.

Placement is never chosen arbitrarily! By moving an artifact, you destroy that careful decision making, and destroy future generations the insight into the minds of the people who erected those monuments.  In egyptology especially, the ritual placement of the artifacts is as important as the artifacts themselves!!

It's a good thing we're not talking about egyptology or archaeology.

I would erect a new monument next to, or around the old one, which changes the tone.

Creating a new monument next to, or around, an old monument, especially where the original inscriptions and imagery of the first monument are totally untouched, asserts the current generation's views, in opposition to the old, while preserving the old.

It really feels like you're grasping at straws here and skirting the issue, and there seems to be a clear contradiction with your suggestion and the reason why they can't be moved. Moving something changes the historical record and is unacceptable, but surrounding old monuments with new ones specifically aimed at mocking the original and changing the tone are fine. And all these monuments need to be left fixed in place for eternity, regardless of what the people currently living in the surrounding densely populated city think. This is what you are suggesting, correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't think your suggestion about an ever-expanding statue garden of mockery is unacceptable (just a bit weird), but totally lumping the movement of things in with their destruction is ridiculous.

[Max™]

Naw, occam's razor applies.  The answer with the least complication is usually the truth.  It is less complicated that somebody faked an image, with the intent to enrage (Only a single actor required, no collaboration), than for all the mainstream media to systemically hush up about it. (Many actors, requires mass collaboration.)

What i find suspicious, is that the MSM did not report on the hoax image...

Uh... I noticed I didn't actually check if where I saw it burning was still up, and it is. Am I wrong in assuming this was the same one others were talking about here?

Spoiler: Hell of a hoax. (click to show/hide)

https://twitter.com/AcquaAmadeo/status/897285855785517056

[Playergamer]

Naw, occam's razor applies.  The answer with the least complication is usually the truth.  It is less complicated that somebody faked an image, with the intent to enrage (Only a single actor required, no collaboration), than for all the mainstream media to systemically hush up about it. (Many actors, requires mass collaboration.)

What i find suspicious, is that the MSM did not report on the hoax image...

Uh... I noticed I didn't actually check if where I saw it burning was still up, and it is. Am I wrong in assuming this was the same one others were talking about here?

Spoiler: Hell of a hoax. (click to show/hide)

https://twitter.com/AcquaAmadeo/status/897285855785517056

Decided to go back and check, since I'd written it off as a hoax after my initial outrage, and hey video.

[smjjames]

Naw, occam's razor applies.  The answer with the least complication is usually the truth.  It is less complicated that somebody faked an image, with the intent to enrage (Only a single actor required, no collaboration), than for all the mainstream media to systemically hush up about it. (Many actors, requires mass collaboration.)

What i find suspicious, is that the MSM did not report on the hoax image...

Uh... I noticed I didn't actually check if where I saw it burning was still up, and it is. Am I wrong in assuming this was the same one others were talking about here?

Spoiler: Hell of a hoax. (click to show/hide)

https://twitter.com/AcquaAmadeo/status/897285855785517056

Decided to go back and check, since I'd written it off as a hoax after my initial outrage, and hey video.

Hopefully it's just an isolated incident, but if more things like that happen, then geeze, the antifa are just lowering themselves to the level of the people they were trying to fight, as far as public goodwill and sympathy goes.

edit: The Minneapolis local newspaper does have a picture of the flag in the proccess of being raised, but no mention of it or the burning effigy. It's curious that the bigger news outlets haven't reported on it, yes.

Wtf? Who the hell vandalizes the Lincoln memorial?

[Trekkin]

Wtf? Who the hell vandalizes the Lincoln memorial?

People who dislike Lincoln and/or the rule of law, to judge from what was written. There are certainly many groups who fall under either umbrella.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

The answer is: Nobody cares about County flags, and only a few people care about Counties.

[Playergamer]

Wtf? Who the hell vandalizes the Lincoln memorial?

People who dislike Lincoln and/or the rule of law, to judge from what was written. There are certainly many groups who fall under either umbrella.

Perhaps they were upset that Lincoln suspended habeas corpus, and felt he made a dangerous precedent that is being used today to strip us of our rights?

Or someone wanted to be edgy.

[Trekkin]

Perhaps they were upset that Lincoln suspended habeas corpus, and felt he made a dangerous precedent that is being used today to strip us of our rights?

Or someone wanted to be edgy.

Or, as is distressingly plausible in the current climate, they felt "his" Logs toys promote deforestation, meant to write "**** logs", and were both a poor speller and bad at rationing their spray paint.

[Neonivek]

Could also be a Nazi Hater who did the graffiti.

It wouldn't be the first time something similar to this happened... Isn't that right all the people who were raped by Donald Trump?

Though... Naw it was probably someone trying to be edgy.

[smjjames]

I wasn't particularily seriously looking for an answer to the question, but okay.

[Frumple]

Hopefully it's just an isolated incident, but if more things like that happen, then geeze, the antifa are just lowering themselves to the level of the people they were trying to fight, as far as public goodwill and sympathy goes.

... y'know, I think I may have figured out why the local news (outside of a specific source or two), haven't been paying much attention to it. Also why a lot of the supporting pictures where pretty poor in terms of clarity, angle, etc.

Namely, it looks a fair bit like every claim made about the flag being up, except it being up, was a flat fucking lie.

[Max™]

I'm not removing the various layers of "ha ha fuck off" between my browser and facebook to make that link work even if I were going to click that, what is it?