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[Loud Whispers]

It's also pretty hardcore left wing, or should I say, LW?

dohohoho

In all seriousness though, he wasn't even saying that about forcing to believe in ideology, and we weren't talking about that.

Saying when you deploy violence against others for being 'unreasonable' when you are your own judge of what constitutes reason is a pretty clear endorsement for that
In other words
violence is the only language these savages understand
Quickest and cheapest propaganda is that your neighbour is your enemy, and your enemy is motivated by base craving, irrationality and inequity. You are just correcting them, like bernieblads and low-information voters

Isn't 'regressive left' (which sounds sorta oxymoronic) also an insult thrown via the Right? Loud Whispers wasn't trying to insult you there though.

They probably wouldn't use it as an insult, because it's a polite term invented to distance progressivism from the stains of the brand from the very ugly occurrences it has happened upon in the current year. Thus if they were being polite, they wouldn't deliberately try to insult, if they're trying to insult, they'd use something insulting

Ignoring that calling someone right wing as an insult is part of the regressive left.
Forcing people to believe in your ideology with violence is currently in both hands right now.
Well ok, it pretty much always has been.

True that, but you gotta admit, that being called right-wing is an insult really speaks to the level of respect given across ideology
We have all been consumed by madness
Logically one should not even care if they are left or right wing, but so it is, that we do to the point of alienation

[Frumple]

"There is no right to a court-appointed attorney in immigration court." Oof, that's the problem right there. Not to mention an identity mixup.

I mean... it is a problem, but it's also pretty explicitly by design. Most things immigration related are not criminal issues. Think a good chunk aren't even civil ones, so far as the court system goes, iirc. Which means the constitutional protections given to criminals and those engaged in civil disputes are not extended to those getting shat on, rightly or otherwise, by immigration courts.

This is done for a whole host of incredibly farcically shitty reasons and one really goddamn practical one, namely that giving immigration supplicants, or issues related to them, or people mistaken for them, the full procedural rights given civil or (gods forbid) criminal cases, would grind our legal system and our immigration system and probably chunks of our law enforcement et al system to a screaming halt. Things that take years, now, would probably end up taking decades. Isp would probably have fun imagining an immigration system that both has to pay for all the extra by itself and works several times slower.

So yeah, fellow didn't get a court appointed attorney. Regardless of the ethical aspect (and, don't mistake that, I'd fall real hard in favor of full protections for everyone for everything if I wasn't being hauled into ambivalence land by the concept of lawyers that need sleep) , the logistics one takes one look at the concept and starts screaming about happy happy fractally recursive self-fucking hell. It's exaggerating, a bit, but it's around the right level of whooping terror.

[ChristianWeiseth]

Do your Filipino friends and co-workers say why they are happy with Duerte? Do they mention the thousands of extrajudicial killings in their analysis?

That's the reason they are happy with him at least my filipino male friend and filipino female coworker. Two cases don't exactly prove a trend. But we base our perception on our experience.

As for the violence in American political culture, I see there are much historical justification for violence against the opposition and any authority that tries to intervene. Personally though I have also only seen individual attacks from both sides, and no systematic violence with riots as an exception, but I also base this solely on youtube videos.

Good luck to you.

[Starver]

http://www.npr.org/2017/08/01/540903038/u-s-citizen-held-by-immigration-for-3-years-denied-compensation-by-appeals-court

everything about this is absurd.

"There is no right to a court-appointed attorney in immigration court." Oof, that's the problem right there. Not to mention an identity mixup.

I was drawn to the...

" 'Equitable tolling is a rare remedy to be applied in unusual circumstances, not a cure-all for an entirely common state of affairs,' the majority wrote.

My immediate thoughts were then shown to be pre-ninjaed by the immediately following...

"In a dissent, U.S. Circuit Judge Robert Katzmann skewered his colleagues' reasoning.
" 'I would hope that nothing about Watson's 1,273‐day detention can be said to have been "an entirely common state of affairs," ' he wrote. 'If it were, we should all be deeply troubled.' "

Indeed.

[Frumple]

Yeah, welcome to US immigration enforcement. 2012 numbers show that while that's not normal, exactly, a good 3% of just ICE detainees that were released in that nov-dec period had been in the clink equivalent for more than half a year.

Around four and a half k detainees in the system at the time that had been restrained for better than half a year, with an average period among that lot that was over a year. A round dozen that had been incarcerated for between six and eight years, i.e. twice or better what the article's subject was.

Folks are, in fact, fairly deeply troubled and with pretty good reason. That sort of detention may not be common relative to the total locked up, but it's definitely not unknown or terribly unusual, either.

These are administrative incarcerations, not criminal. They don't really need reason, there's little to no cap on their duration, and oversight is hella' shit a lot of the time. Anyone who thinks all that crap is working properly hasn't paid a single soggy iota of attention to the state of things.

Or to put it another way. Shit is shit, and about the only non-shit reason we don't shit on that is 'cause unshitting that shit would likely make all sorts of shit even shittier. It's a shit situation all around, but shit like the shit in that article ain't weird shit.

[martinuzz]

I wonder how those judges would feel if they were kidnapped and held prisoner for 3 years, and then released, just for no reason.

[Starver]

Sounds like a job for the A-Team! (Or maybe Jim Phelps.)

[Frumple]

I wonder how those judges would feel if they were kidnapped and held prisoner for 3 years, and then released, just for no reason.

Probably pretty damn bad, but it's also not really their job to stop things like that. It often works out that way anyway, but that's because often the screwing is, in fact, not fastidiously legal.

The problem here's the (lack of) law itself more than interpretation, which is the legislative's job to unfuck (and the people's to say to 'em, "Yo', unfuck this shit."), not the judiciaries. The judges mostly seem to have done what they were supposed to do, basically, is just what they filter that through (the legal situation vis a vis immigration and immigration courts et al), in this case, happens to be kinda' shit.

Or in other words, both the majority and that bit of dissenting opinion looks to be mostly correct, it's just that the mandate to fix the mess referenced by the latter is someone else's shtick.

[RedKing]

Sorry to resurrect a flaming shitpile here, but as far as I can tell, there haven't been any deaths from "Leftist" riots in 2017. Not even that many injuries.
Yeah, a fair amount of property damage, but these have also been highly concentrated on the West Coast (Out of seven documented incidents, four were in California and three of *those* were in Berkeley.)

So yeah....this idea of "Oh teh noes its a wave of liberal violence" is nothing but snowflake chatter.
 

[Folly]

Trump has finally announced his plan to stop immigrants from illegally entering our country, taking our jobs, and raping our women. We're going to fast-track them to citizenship, so that they can do all those things as legal citizens. Problem solved!

[sluissa]

Trump has finally announced his plan to stop immigrants from illegally entering our country, taking our jobs, and raping our women. We're going to fast-track them to citizenship, so that they can do all those things as legal citizens. Problem solved!

Are you sure? Sounds like they just want to cut the current quotas in half... and otherwise not do much else. Also a token limit on refugees.

All of which will just make illegal immigration even worse... but yeah... go ahead and try it. Won't change much, to be honest. Some countries are going to be looking at 40 year waits instead of 20 year waits. Both ridiculous numbers by any standard and far too long to wait. Others won't be affected at all.

[SalmonGod]

Sorry to resurrect a flaming shitpile here, but as far as I can tell, there haven't been any deaths from "Leftist" riots in 2017. Not even that many injuries.
Yeah, a fair amount of property damage, but these have also been highly concentrated on the West Coast (Out of seven documented incidents, four were in California and three of *those* were in Berkeley.)

So yeah....this idea of "Oh teh noes its a wave of liberal violence" is nothing but snowflake chatter.

Thank you!  It's seriously bizarre to me that anyone can say these things and not provoke a wtf response from more people.  Neonivek talks about measured responses, but what kind of measure do you get when people can insert completely spun out of balance worldviews as matter of fact into a discussion and it just slides right through?  Letting that build momentum (as I'm seeing all over the place, not just here) is how you get horribly immeasured responses to imaginary problems.

[Frumple]

... for what it's worth, I'm pretty sure it provokes more of a wtf response than you see. Just often fairly involved to make substantive response on the subject, particularly if folks are already saying most of what they'd say.

So people otherwise agreeing just kinda' don't speak up, y'know? Takes more effort than they got on the topic, at that particular moment in time.

[misko27]

Trump has finally announced his plan to stop immigrants from illegally entering our country, taking our jobs, and raping our women. We're going to fast-track them to citizenship, so that they can do all those things as legal citizens. Problem solved!

Um, are you sure? He's unveiling a plan to halve legal immigration, which is bound to be controversial even among Republicans. RAISE Act is the name, I believe.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

RAISE Act

plan to halve legal immigration

Oh fuck, Trump saw all those parodies of the PATRIOT Act but he didn't understand and now he's doing the thing