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[Sheb]

They tried smart and wonky at the last election and they lost.

[smjjames]

They tried smart and wonky at the last election and they lost.

They didn't win the presidency, no, but they were able to make some gains in Congress.

@sluissa: As I said, a new slogan doesn't help unless they change their behavior, and they seem to be trying, somewhat, just can't decide how exactly.

[Sheb]

The lost both the House and Senate. And in the House they actually lost the popular vote, so you can't blame it all on jerrymandering (They won the popular vote in the senate, but that's probably just more democratic states voting this time).

The lesson of 2016 is that competence loses to empty promises and dumb slogan.

[smjjames]

That's gerrymandering, and I think that's the wrong lession to learn there.

[hector13]

What's the right lesson?

[Sheb]

That's gerrymandering, and I think that's the wrong lession to learn there.

Not only. They lost the popular house vote.

[Tawa]

The lost both the House and Senate. And in the House they actually lost the popular vote, so you can't blame it all on jerrymandering (They won the popular vote in the senate, but that's probably just more democratic states voting this time).

I think you have those backwards. Gerrymandering is what would cause a candidate to win despite losing the popular vote.

[MrRoboto75]

What's the right lesson?

Life: the winning move is to not play

[SalmonGod]

I agree that the slogan is stupid.  But we do need some New Deal-type talk and action.  It just can't be about creating jobs or raising working wages.  It needs to be about making up for the failures of late stage capitalism.  Things like Basic Income.  Not saying that thing exactly, but that level of drastic new approach.  We've been entering a new era of human history ever since the Cold War ended and the internet gained traction.  People in power just aren't recognizing that, except when it serves their interests.  Most of the public doesn't want to recognize it, either, but that's because people in power don't make any attempt to sell it to them as anything but doomsday that they swear to fight against for populist points.

Problem is selling a post-scarcity, automated future to the public is hard to do with slogans, since giving anything to a person for any reason other then reward for work or incentive to work is the berserk button of American culture.

[EnigmaticHat]

you'll succeed if you worked hard you'll succeed if you worked hard you'll succeed

Spoiler: Now imagine that in a circle like this (click to show/hide)

But yeah, tis fucked.  I grew up with people telling me that I had to study hard or I'd end up working in McDonalds.  Can you imagine that?  All these people going around doing honest labor and contributing to society, and their lives are being used as a boogeyman to scare kids.  Fuck that shit, you should be able to work in fast food and still have a happy life.  But people can't wrap their heads around that.

You're right that its not just about money.  Its about stability and its about quality of life.  People shouldn't have to worry about what happens if their car breaks down or their coat gets a hole.  Or if they get cancer.  And by worry I mean in the lose sleep sense, obviously a certain level of fear and anxiety is always useful.  We're getting to the point where even if you have a really great job you're still working 45+ hours, and people who have a worse job work more.  There was a great Jon Oliver segment where he brought up that members of congress spend over half their time in a literal call center cold calling random people for donations.  Even some of the most powerful individuals in America still have a stressful, shitty job.  And like there's no need for life in this country to be so stressful and unhappy.  We have plenty of resources, our population is pretty low and our place in the world is quite secure.  Pretty much everything that's done real damage to us lately we've done to ourselves.

The success of Bernie gives me hope.  Not really for now, but maybe in a decade or 3.  I think with every year voters are more and more primed for a New New Deal.  Sadly I don't think Bernie will be around to see it nor do I think it could possibly happen quickly.  Our political system is entrenched, for better or worse.  It can change, like we saw with Obamacare, but its not quick or easy.

[SalmonGod]

Problem is we can't really wait that long.  The worst outcomes for the environment and economy will already be sealed.

[ChairmanPoo]

The lost both the House and Senate. And in the House they actually lost the popular vote, so you can't blame it all on jerrymandering (They won the popular vote in the senate, but that's probably just more democratic states voting this time).

The lesson of 2016 is that competence loses to empty promises and dumb slogan.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[smjjames]

I agree that the slogan is stupid.  But we do need some New Deal-type talk and action.  It just can't be about creating jobs or raising working wages.  It needs to be about making up for the failures of late stage capitalism.  Things like Basic Income.  Not saying that thing exactly, but that level of drastic new approach.  We've been entering a new era of human history ever since the Cold War ended and the internet gained traction.  People in power just aren't recognizing that, except when it serves their interests.  Most of the public doesn't want to recognize it, either, but that's because people in power don't make any attempt to sell it to them as anything but doomsday that they swear to fight against for populist points.

Problem is selling a post-scarcity, automated future to the public is hard to do with slogans, since giving anything to a person for any reason other then reward for work or incentive to work is the berserk button of American culture.

I wonder if there's a thing as end stage or terminal stage capitalism...

But yeah, we're hurtling into a transition between one era to the next with change (both neccesary change and naturally occuring change) seeming to happen more and more rapidly.

As for the whole slogan thing, gotta start somewhere and one of the contributing factors to Clinton's loss is that her campaign was unusually focused on personal substance rather than policy, historically wise. Also, Sen. Schumer said that they'll have 'a very novel idea on how to create 10 million jobs'[/url, whatever that means. We'll find out tomorrow.

The success of Bernie gives me hope.  Not really for now, but maybe in a decade or 3.  I think with every year voters are more and more primed for a New New Deal.  Sadly I don't think Bernie will be around to see it nor do I think it could possibly happen quickly.

The problem is that we need something NOW.

Our political system is entrenched, for better or worse.  It can change, like we saw with Obamacare, but its not quick or easy.

Well, there's eventually going to be some sort of breaking (I hope not) or turning point, hopefully before we hit rock bottom.

[Cthulhu]

For there to be a terminal stage you'd need somebody to actually define late stage instead of throwing it around like a magical incantation.

There's nothing wrong with capitalism, it's just been installed on incompatible hardware.  I defy anyone to name a single problem with capitalism that isn't neatly resolved by replacing humans with self-improving algorithms.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

dehumanize yourself and face to bloodshed