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[Frumple]

Oh. Hrm. I could swear we had another one that was actually a dedicated ME in general thing, but it's entirely possible it's just my memory screwing up again. Doesn't really matter either way if that's what you thought, heh. Was thinking of same thing being suggested anyway :V

[smjjames]

Given the age of the forum, theres certainly going to be some other MidEast threads around that just fell out of use.

[Frumple]

Oh, probably. Was thinking I saw it within the last few months, though. Probably just the brainmeats going a little haywire again.

[smjjames]

Pretty sure that's been the only active MidEast thread for a while.

Stuff about Turkey and Israel often gets talked about on the non-EU europe thread, maybe that's what you're remembering?

[Powder Miner]

I'm actually pretty much fine with the Su-22 being downed, and I don't know if that says I'm moving towards hawkish or not -- but this is a Kurdish zone that has been host to US special forces, and this happened after a bit of a standoff... and in general, I'm not overly alarmed about one of Assad's planes getting shot down.

The Russians might say something, but a slight worsening of Russian relations isn't terrible in my book, because I have a hateboner for Russia anyway, if they imposed economic things it would just punish them more than it would us, they obviously won't attack us, cooperation in Syria seems to have been more in name than anything else, so I have to conclude it won't come down to genuine consequences. Perhaps military cooperation will drop a bit, but like I said I've been skeptical of what cooperation there supposedly was anyway.

[martinuzz]

It could have been worse, if it had been a Russian fighter.

[Powder Miner]

If it were a Russian fighter, it wouldn't have happened in the first place -- not only are there presumable ways to identify what country a plane is from, of course, but evidently we were in contact with the Russians over a special channel.

[EnigmaticHat]

I'm actually pretty much fine with the Su-22 being downed, and I don't know if that says I'm moving towards hawkish or not -- but this is a Kurdish zone that has been host to US special forces, and this happened after a bit of a standoff... and in general, I'm not overly alarmed about one of Assad's planes getting shot down.

The Russians might say something, but a slight worsening of Russian relations isn't terrible in my book, because I have a hateboner for Russia anyway, if they imposed economic things it would just punish them more than it would us, they obviously won't attack us, cooperation in Syria seems to have been more in name than anything else, so I have to conclude it won't come down to genuine consequences. Perhaps military cooperation will drop a bit, but like I said I've been skeptical of what cooperation there supposedly was anyway.

I agree with you as a whole, but I'd nitpick the "obviously they won't attack us" part.  You're right that they aren't going to but that should never be an assumption when it comes to nuclear war.

[Powder Miner]

I feel absolutely confident in making the statement that there isn't a chance of nuclear war coming from this. There's no payoff to it -- in fact, nuclear war would provide the ultimate negative payoff (doing absolutely nothing would provide a far better payoff, as would every single intermediate option). There's no incentive or reason for Russia to even consider nuclear war in any situation in Syria, and thusly I feel 100% safe discounting it completely.

Talk of nuclear war around Syria frustrates me, because it seems to me that people are getting panicked or hysterical about... nothing, when it's brought up. We are far, far, far from any nuclear confrontation with Russia. Every bit as far as with China.

[Starver]

If it were a Russian fighter, it wouldn't have happened in the first place -- not only are there presumable ways to identify what country a plane is from, of course, but evidently we were in contact with the Russians over a special channel.

@realDonaldTrump

[Frumple]

If it were a Russian fighter, it wouldn't have happened in the first place -- not only are there presumable ways to identify what country a plane is from, of course, but evidently we were in contact with the Russians over a special channel.

Yeah, and it didn't stop the bombing attempt. Also didn't stop the cyber attacks, for that matter. I wouldn't put much stock in special channels with russia doing fuck all, at this point. Maybe russia wouldn't bomb american forces (intentionally, or at least "intentionally"), but the plane that was shot down wasn't attempting to, either.

So far as nukes go, war's pretty unlikely still, sure. Unfortunately, on the nuclear front it's not really war we're notably worried about, but escalation and brinkmanship. What's more on the table than it should be is seeing is deployment of tactical scale (i.e. the tiny tiny ones, as nukes go) nuclear munitions. That is what putin has been intimating as being willing to do, and it's also something the current US majority party (and yes, including the current POTUS) has stumped for or refused to categorically state was off the table. War might not be a possibility, but the worry that's worryingly legitimate is this shit bringing nuclear arms to the battle field, if not strategic theater.

... all that said, is this event marks the beginning of a no-fly zone functional or explicit, I am going laugh, and laugh, and laugh, and laugh. And then maybe cry or throw things at people, I'unno.

[martinuzz]

And ofcourse, Russia has cancelled the cooperation with the US which in in place to prevent them from hitting each others airplanes over Syria, and called the downing of the Syrian plane a breach of Syria's sovereignty.
They say they are very angry that the US did not use any channels of communication that were present with the Russian forces to warn the Syrian aircraft it was endangering US backed troops.

Russia has said that it will regard any US airplanes west of the Euphrat river as valid targets now.

[RedKing]

... all that said, is this event marks the beginning of a no-fly zone functional or explicit, I am going laugh, and laugh, and laugh, and laugh. And then maybe cry or throw things at people, I'unno.

The Congress said, "No,Trump. You are the Obama"

And then Trump was the Obama.


Also, if this shit in Syria goes hot, I want to find every single Trump voter that said "Hillary would cause WWIII!" and personally punch them in their bitch faces.

[Sergarr]

And ofcourse, Russia has cancelled the cooperation with the US which in in place to prevent them from hitting each others airplanes over Syria, and called the downing of the Syrian plane a breach of Syria's sovereignty.
They say they are very angry that the US did not use any channels of communication that were present with the Russian forces to warn the Syrian aircraft it was endangering US backed troops.

Russia has said that it will regard any US airplanes west of the Euphrat river as valid targets now.

Fake news bro, Russia only said that it would escort the planes. Also, that's the second time said cooperation agreement has been cancelled. Last time it got quietly restored a few weeks later without any incidents in-between.

[martinuzz]

Not sure if it's fake news, my newspaper hasn't changed it since they posted the article, and the BBC says the same.
http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/rusland-toestellen-vs-ten-westen-van-eufraat-zijn-doelwitten~a4501563/

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-40329036

"Any aircraft, including planes and drones belonging to the international coalition operating west of the Euphrates river, will be tracked by Russian anti-aircraft forces in the sky and on the ground and treated as targets," the Russian defence ministry said.