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[Pwnzerfaust]

That's a bit dramatic, isn't it?

[Hanslanda]

Not really. Only, what, two presidents prior were elected without the popular vote majority? Only three have been investigated for wrongdoing while in office? And only one has been blatantly abusing his privileges to stymie judicial proceedings? Kinda unique.

[Pwnzerfaust]

Not really. Only, what, two presidents prior were elected without the popular vote majority?

Five total, including Trump.

Only three have been investigated for wrongdoing while in office? And only one has been blatantly abusing his privileges to stymie judicial proceedings? Kinda unique.

Don't know enough about Presidential history going back to the early days, but even given that, it's not like this is some world-ending event. The Constitution is structured as it is for just this reason. It's business as usual, even if it's on the extreme end of that. Call me when he starts openly defying constitutional mandates.

[Frumple]

I mean... as soon as the lawsuits end? Or start. Hard to parse exactly what's happening with the DC/maryland thing from the news, honestly.

[Hanslanda]

Travel ban. *rings Pwnzerfaust* Yeah. No, him. Yeah. Yeah. Unconstitutional. No, it's fine. Okay buh-bye.


I am just kidding at this point, but it's pretty unusual.

[Pwnzerfaust]

I mean, is he the first ever president to institute an executive order that was found unconstitutional afterward?

[Lord Shonus]

Not even close.

FDR had executive orders 6199, 6204 , 6256, 6284, and 6855 (all of which seem to be heavy restrictions on the oil industry) invalidated by the Supreme Court.

[Max™]

Definitely not, even the all time high scorer FDR had some that were deemed unconstitutional later.

Is Trump the first president who doesn't actually understand what something being unconstitutional entails?

I mean, there's no 4-D Xanatos gambit going on here, dude straight up had no clue what actually getting in the office meant beyond "have way more power than everyone else" so he went for it, not seeming to catch that the exercise of that power generally involves negotiating all the systems and rules and such which exist solely to prevent or at least curtail the abuse of power while setting up routes to remove said power if it is abused.

[Pwnzerfaust]

I get that, and don't get me wrong, I agree he's a shit president. I just don't agree with the assertion that there's something uniquely horrifying about Trump's presidency compared to other past bad presidencies. At least not yet. It's not quite on Nixon levels, for example.

[Frumple]

Getting closer every day so far as the impeachment stuff goes, though :V

... though it'd probably be 2018 at the earliest, for that, unless he starts getting even worse. Having a go at mueller ping pong, ferex.

E: Oh, though there is at least one thing that's pretty damn unusual. Trump's not actually divested himself of his previous business connections, so far as anyone seems able to tell.

E2: Amusingly enough, apparently Nixon was the last one to really trip over that, too, ha.

[redwallzyl]

The stand out terrible thing about trump is how ridiculously grossly incompetent he is. that is what we despise about him more then any other president. you can say a lot of bad things about bush for example but you cant say he was totally incompetent at everything he did and ignorant of basically everything.

[nenjin]

I get that, and don't get me wrong, I agree he's a shit president. I just don't agree with the assertion that there's something uniquely horrifying about Trump's presidency compared to other past bad presidencies. At least not yet. It's not quite on Nixon levels, for example.

It's just uniquely embarrassing that he's this much of an amateur.

[Starver]

... It's not quite on Nixon levels, for example.

But, at this same point in Nixon's career as president, was he thought of as bad at anywhere near Trump's level?

(Actually a genuine question, for those geographically better-suited to remember the era in America than myself. There were certainly issues with his pre-presidential days, famously originally trying and losing out to JFK, and had had a stint as VP with problems such as being accused if misusing political funds. But then once he got the Presidency he made great play of renormalising relations with China (!), settling differences with Russia (!!), arms sales to Saudi Arabia to deal with contemporary issues in the Middle East (!!!), vetoed the Clean Water Act (!!!!), enacted Healthcare reform (!!!!!), etc... What he did was generally popular and got him near universal support for his second term re-election...  Then came Watergate.  I don't see Trump managing to squeeze a first-term revival to get him only to mid-way through his second term before the realisation (re)dawns upon the populace that he stinks as badly as old Tricky Dicky eventually did...  But only time will tell if the Dems get another Chappaquiddick on their next wonder-candidate and then end up with a relative McGovern instead.)

[Max™]

The stand out terrible thing about trump is how ridiculously grossly incompetent he is. that is what we despise about him more then any other president. you can say a lot of bad things about bush for example but you cant say he was totally incompetent at everything he did and ignorant of basically everything.

God damn it is sad that Bush comes across as a polished and dignified statesman in hindsight, and how the fuck are we going to ever explain to kids in school how Mr. I Open My Mouth And Booming Inspiration Pours Out was followed by Mr. Wrong, My Inspirational Words Are The Best, Everyone Says So, Except Muslims And Democrats somehow?

Yes, Bush made gaffes, he was a fucking gaffe machine, fucker talking about women and fish and gynos practicing their... love for women and all sorts of other shit, but I never got the feeling that he literally had no clue what anybody was actually talking abotu when things turned to politics.

He never sat at a table like a spoiled little fat kid and demanded praise for not pooping his pants today before scrunching his face up and forcing his nannies to rush off to get a change of clothes.

I would say that I think Trump will wind up being the all time low bar, but I said there was no fucking way people would let a dangerous fucking manchild like him in office in the first place, and though it is uncorrelated of course... it's still uncomfortable learning that reality is so vastly different from everything your experiences and understanding suggest it should be.

[misko27]

What worries me is that Trump will drive the bar for President lower; not just in the sense of opening us up to unironic "Kanye West"-type presidential nominees, but that what expect from our Presidents will be diminished. So determined are for people to have culture warriors (for their side) that they'll accept lower qualities in what actually matters in a President, like personal and public honesty, general intelligence, wise leadership, and effective policy.

And unironically preferring incompetence to malevolence will face a rude awakening when a big crisis occurs. Every modern President has faced a few: The Arab Spring, the Financial Meltdown, Katrina & Sandy, the fall of the Eastern Bloc, the Iranian Revolution or any other unpredictable massive crisis (and, of course, 9/11).