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[misko27]

Well sure it's amateur. If what you're doing is flooding, there's not much reason to use much else for most of it, and it's probably cheaper than alternatives you could be doing something more nuanced with.

Flooding isn't cheap. You've got to pay a lot of people. And they need to know English and they need to actually not be amateur at a lot of important elements, so why would they be amateur in this one regard? It's much easier and more effective to have a few experts (which the Kremlin does have) to write a few effective articles and use memetics to leverage a far greater impact through the sort of people who'll play with ideas like pizzagate. Especially since using memetics to sway popular opinion is the goal anyway, when you're trying to steal an election.

Counterpoint: Someone goes through the effort of making either manually making an account for this very forum, or alternately programming something to do it for them, only to ask us to buy kitchen supplies in broken english.

[smjjames]

Trump slammed Qatar again an hour after Secretary of State Tillerson did a statement defending Qatar.

Vox article on the same thing

Is Trump even aware that we have a big military base there which is also the freaking command center for the entire MidEast region? Plus he does this after freaking offering Qatar an olive branch to mediate, which they declined. Whatever Trump is doing, he clearly has no clue what he is doing.

If I were an ally of the US under President Trump, I'd be slightly nervous about whether he'd up and turn on me. Though Saudi Arabia doesn't care atm since he's doing what they want.

[redwallzyl]

he clearly has no clue what he is doing.

This is a summery of his entire time in office.

[Strife26]

can someone please define what election interference is, specifically in this case.

thank you.

Anything the other people did.

[martinuzz]

So Trump is willing to testify under oath about his conversations with Comey. What's the punishment for lying under oath? How many years in prison? Will he become the first US president to spend the last years of his life in jail?

[smjjames]

So Trump is willing to testify under oath about his conversations with Comey. What's the punishment for lying under oath? How many years in prison? Will he become the first US president to spend the last years of his life in jail?

It varies a bit from state to state, but generally it's at minimum one year, up to five.

Of course, he'd have to be successfully impeached or resign first. Nixon resigned just before the impeachment happened and Clinton got accquited by the Senate. What happened with Clinton was pretty blatantly political, even though it was technically the correct use of it.

[Rolan7]

can someone please define what election interference is, specifically in this case.

thank you.

Can't define it in this case because it's the subject of an ongoing classified investigation.  Congress gets to know, we don't yet.
Of course, Trump's staff might have been innocent of wrongdoing.  Even if they did do wrong, maybe Trump wasn't involved.  I would have especially believed the latter... 

Until Trump just happened to fire the director in charge of the investigation.  Supposedly for mishandling an investigation that took place half a year before...  Despite praising him right up to the point where he had a private dinner with him.  A private dinner even Republicans are acknowledging, by adopting the "'I hope you drop the case' isn't an order technically!" party line.

Whether Trump was complicit or just weirdly petty, it's cringy to watch Trump supporters in comment sections trying to downplay it.  Usually while bringing up "BENGAHZI" and "EMAILS", which seems especially hypocritical.  Firing the FBI director as he's investigating your staff isn't illegal, but it's literally about the fishiest response I can think of without anybody dying.

[Frumple]

Of course, he'd have to be successfully impeached or resign first. Nixon resigned just before the impeachment happened and Clinton got accquited by the Senate. What happened with Clinton was pretty blatantly political, even though it was technically the correct use of it.

Eh, one of the fun bits about this whole mess is we don't actually know that. The question of if the president is subject to criminal trial and whatnot while in office has never actually been explicitly and fully answered by the judiciary. Impeachment in the short term may be pretty unlikely, but the possibility of that question coming before the SCOTUS is one that's on the radar if not yet with a strong signature.

... in any case, trump has indeed said he'd be 100% willing to testify under oath. And that statement was not legally binding. It unfortunately doesn't mean much of anything, just like any number of things (taxes? Sanders debate? Top of head empty now but going on would almost certainly be easy if you cared to) he's previously said or promised and then reversed on. Fun times would be abounding if it actually happens, but I'd hold the party poppers for him being fully sworn in.

[sluissa]

Well sure it's amateur. If what you're doing is flooding, there's not much reason to use much else for most of it, and it's probably cheaper than alternatives you could be doing something more nuanced with.

Flooding isn't cheap. You've got to pay a lot of people. And they need to know English and they need to actually not be amateur at a lot of important elements, so why would they be amateur in this one regard? It's much easier and more effective to have a few experts (which the Kremlin does have) to write a few effective articles and use memetics to leverage a far greater impact through the sort of people who'll play with ideas like pizzagate. Especially since using memetics to sway popular opinion is the goal anyway, when you're trying to steal an election.

One of the big points that hinted towards fishiness was that a lot of the activity had a pattern. In some cases it looked like a regular shift at a job where accounts would start posting at just about the same time every day and stop at just about the same time every day and follow a sort of script. Often the script would be followed so precisely, and jumps in activity so harsh that it was pretty obvious it was something automated going on. Often the timing of the fake news being spread was incredibly precise. Down to the minute of trying to smokescreen something else going on, or build up support for a given point of view that was being simultaneously released along several different avenues.

By no means is this anything new or unusual. Nor is it the sole domain of Russia. It's just notable in that this is a time when it was done so blatantly that it had a pretty obvious affect on a significant and well publicized event. This time people paid attention.

[Egan_BW]

now we just have to get him to testify under oath that he's willing to testify under oath

[Neonivek]

If I were an ally of the US under President Trump, I'd be slightly nervous about whether he'd up and turn on me. Though Saudi Arabia doesn't care atm since he's doing what they want.

That is already happening. What with Donald Trump giving YOUR STATE SECRETS to your enemies... and then saying he has every right to.

[Sheb]

If I were an ally of the US under President Trump, I'd be slightly nervous about whether he'd up and turn on me. Though Saudi Arabia doesn't care atm since he's doing what they want.

That is already happening. What with Donald Trump giving YOUR STATE SECRETS to your enemies... and then saying he has every right to.

I mean, why do you think Europe and Canada are talking of way to boost their defense? It's becoming clearer and clearer that we can't count on the US under Trump to the same level as before. *

* Although we shouldn't overestimate the impact of Trump too. The "adults in the room" have a more standard political approach, and seems to be able to work around Trump for a lot of thing. For exemple, for all of Trump refusing to endorse NATO, someone snuck a 40% increase in the money to support US troops in Eastern Europe in his budget.

[Cruxador]

Well sure it's amateur. If what you're doing is flooding, there's not much reason to use much else for most of it, and it's probably cheaper than alternatives you could be doing something more nuanced with.

Flooding isn't cheap. You've got to pay a lot of people. And they need to know English and they need to actually not be amateur at a lot of important elements, so why would they be amateur in this one regard? It's much easier and more effective to have a few experts (which the Kremlin does have) to write a few effective articles and use memetics to leverage a far greater impact through the sort of people who'll play with ideas like pizzagate. Especially since using memetics to sway popular opinion is the goal anyway, when you're trying to steal an election.

Counterpoint: Someone goes through the effort of making either manually making an account for this very forum, or alternately programming something to do it for them, only to ask us to buy kitchen supplies in broken english.

That's computer done, so the needed level of successes per post is very small. Further, it's a lot less of a sensitive operation than sliding public opinion. It doesn't matter if a million of us think they're clearly transparent idiots, if the million-and-first person bites the hook, because that's still a net gain. Politics aren't as simple as that.

Well sure it's amateur. If what you're doing is flooding, there's not much reason to use much else for most of it, and it's probably cheaper than alternatives you could be doing something more nuanced with.

Flooding isn't cheap. You've got to pay a lot of people. And they need to know English and they need to actually not be amateur at a lot of important elements, so why would they be amateur in this one regard? It's much easier and more effective to have a few experts (which the Kremlin does have) to write a few effective articles and use memetics to leverage a far greater impact through the sort of people who'll play with ideas like pizzagate. Especially since using memetics to sway popular opinion is the goal anyway, when you're trying to steal an election.

One of the big points that hinted towards fishiness was that a lot of the activity had a pattern. In some cases it looked like a regular shift at a job where accounts would start posting at just about the same time every day and stop at just about the same time every day and follow a sort of script. Often the script would be followed so precisely, and jumps in activity so harsh that it was pretty obvious it was something automated going on. Often the timing of the fake news being spread was incredibly precise. Down to the minute of trying to smokescreen something else going on, or build up support for a given point of view that was being simultaneously released along several different avenues.

By no means is this anything new or unusual. Nor is it the sole domain of Russia. It's just notable in that this is a time when it was done so blatantly that it had a pretty obvious affect on a significant and well publicized event. This time people paid attention.

Those are all symptomatic of a dedicated and professionally executed sliding effort, yep. Are these also the accounts that Shonus mentioned which crossed the streams by putting pro-Russian content along with other stuff, or is the Russian backing to this particular operation difficult for a private citizen to verify?

[Neonivek]

PFT Lawyers afraid Trump won't pay them? Please when has Trump ever not paid someone for their had work?

*Listens to ear piece*

What was that? Trump made a business off of getting people to do stuff for him without paying? He is the scummiest man in the USA business wise without hyperbole?

---

Actually I'd be REALLY curious who is even more scummy than Donald Trump in American Business.

Pyramid Schemers are up there... But they haven't really sought to actively bankrupt people.

[Frumple]

Oh, there's no few that's as bad or worse. Your average batch of junk mail would provide a handful of examples, really, and if you felt like digging elsewhere you'd find plenty of businessfolk that can only be described as goddamn scum. Is what happens when you have strong attempts to limit efforts to curtail those kinds of shitheels.

... though it's probably a good idea to note that being on par with people who make a living draining the bank accounts of the elderly and infirm is, perhaps, not a statement of praise or notation of normality ethics wise for your actions.

E: Basically, don't mistake it. Trump is goddamn scum, particularly so far as business dealings go. But's he's only particularly notable scum because his inheritance let him get away with being scum to more people and people with more money than the more normal sorts tend to prey on.