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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 4275670 times)

nenjin

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Russia scandal investigation rumbles onward
« Reply #7095 on: June 01, 2017, 01:54:53 pm »

Shit gonna be cray cray when that decision gets extended to software.
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Frumple

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Russia scandal investigation rumbles onward
« Reply #7096 on: June 01, 2017, 02:03:04 pm »

If kinda' odd. You'd probably have to be, like... passing along harddrives or something, to slot into a similar situation. Which I think is largely legal now, really. So long as you're not copying the data et al (and it could probably count if you move it from a computer to a flash drive or somethin') you're relatively good, far as I'm aware.
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WealthyRadish

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Russia scandal investigation rumbles onward
« Reply #7097 on: June 01, 2017, 02:21:09 pm »

Quote
Roberts went on to trace the exhaustion principle through common law going back to the 17th century. "As Lord Coke put it... if an owner restricts the resale or use of an item after selling it, that restriction 'is voide, because... it is against Trade and Traffique, and bargaining and contracting betweene man and man,'" wrote Roberts.

Calling dibs on "Lord Coke" for my rap alias.
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martinuzz

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Russia scandal investigation rumbles onward
« Reply #7098 on: June 01, 2017, 02:24:14 pm »

Does that apply to crops? GMOs and their seeds? I think it does...
Now that is a very good question indeed.
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Hanslanda

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Russia scandal investigation rumbles onward
« Reply #7099 on: June 01, 2017, 02:27:20 pm »

Does that apply to crops? GMOs and their seeds? I think it does...
Now that is a very good question indeed.

We can only hope it is.
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WealthyRadish

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Russia scandal investigation rumbles onward
« Reply #7100 on: June 01, 2017, 02:41:37 pm »

Honestly, this is such an unexpectedly positive result for the current political climate that I can't help but feel that there'll be massive caveats that render it ineffectual. The implications for all kinds of intellectual property could be incredible, but it's felt impossible for so long to see progress that I can't help but be skeptical.

The line here in particular seems like a big loophole since it seems like other legislation could effectively enforce patents regardless of this ruling, but I don't know enough about patent law to say how relevant it is:

Quote from: Roberts
"A patentee is free to set the price and negotiate contracts with his purchasers, but may not, 'by virtue of his patent, control the use or disposition' of the product after ownership passes to the purchaser."
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TheDarkStar

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Russia scandal investigation rumbles onward
« Reply #7101 on: June 01, 2017, 02:53:36 pm »

Bleh, Trump is probably pulling the US out of the Paris accords today. What a covfefe for the environment.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2017, 02:56:38 pm by TheDarkStar »
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Max™

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Russia scandal investigation rumbles onward
« Reply #7102 on: June 01, 2017, 03:02:21 pm »

Trump has officially declared 'Fuck the environment'.
Well, given that he is a moron and has no idea of any reasons why anyone is trying to argue for or against CO2 controls, more accurately he declared "fuck the libruhlz" because he's the new champion of the party of no.

We can have all the bad stuff towed out of the environment.
Holy cow, is that video for real or is that satire? I just can't tell.
It is real awesome, look up more of their videos, I love those guys.

In less Trumpy news, the Supreme Court ruled overwhelmingly in favor of consumer rights by agreeing 7-1 that Lexmark cannot ban anyone from buying, refilling, and reselling their ink cartridges. The only dissenting voice was Ginsburg (Gorsuch abstained, as he was not present for a large portion of the arguments) who quibbled with some of the international aspects of the decision.

While this seems like a fairly niche issue, it has wide-ranging implications for aftermarket repair and refurbishment, not to mention the cost of consumables.
As a tinkerer/rigger/repairdude this is cool shit, the anti-fixable ibullshit can fuck right the hell off as can the dolts who defend it.
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Frumple

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Russia scandal investigation rumbles onward
« Reply #7103 on: June 01, 2017, 03:14:45 pm »

Honestly, this is such an unexpectedly positive result for the current political climate that I can't help but feel that there'll be massive caveats that render it ineffectual. The implications for all kinds of intellectual property could be incredible, but it's felt impossible for so long to see progress that I can't help but be skeptical.
I mean... you probably should be? Far as I'm aware the decision doesn't really mean much of anything so far as IP rights go.  You can repair, resale. You can't repair, copy, and resale, reproduce, whatever. The big fiddly bit with IP so far as digital/immaterial stuff goes (and by extension, largely the problem period) is something pretty much completely inapplicable when you're dealing with physical goods. Most knock-on effect I could see is with transformative works (which are already pretty protected, so far as I'm aware), and even that would be pretty sketchy.

It should clarify some stuff for aftermarket/resellers and whatnot, but that's really just kinda' it, far as I'm aware.
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Folly

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Russia scandal investigation rumbles onward
« Reply #7104 on: June 01, 2017, 03:25:14 pm »

Quote from: Barack Obama
A year and a half ago, the world came together in Paris around the first-ever global agreement to set the world on a low-carbon course and protect the world we leave to our children.

It was steady, principled American leadership on the world stage that made that achievement possible. It was bold American ambition that encouraged dozens of other nations to set their sights higher as well. And what made that leadership and ambition possible was America’s private innovation and public investment in growing industries like wind and solar — industries that created some of the fastest new streams of good-paying jobs in recent years, and contributed to the longest streak of job creation in our history.

Simply put, the private sector already chose a low-carbon future. And for the nations that committed themselves to that future, the Paris Agreement opened the floodgates for businesses, scientists, and engineers to unleash high-tech, low-carbon investment and innovation on an unprecedented scale.

The nations that remain in the Paris Agreement will be the nations that reap the benefits in jobs and industries created. I believe the United States of America should be at the front of the pack. But even in the absence of American leadership; even as this Administration joins a small handful of nations that reject the future; I’m confident that our states, cities, and businesses will step up and do even more to lead the way, and help protect for future generations the one planet we’ve got.

Downright noble.
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Gizogin

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Russia scandal investigation rumbles onward
« Reply #7105 on: June 01, 2017, 03:32:23 pm »

Does that apply to crops? GMOs and their seeds? I think it does...
Now that is a very good question indeed.
This is referring to how GM crops can't be reseeded and have to have the seeds purchased again from the "manufacturer" each time the farmer wants to plant them, yes?

Monsanto (the go-to name in GM crops) requires those who buy its seeds to agree not to replant them, meaning that when they do crack down on someone for replanting seeds, it's a matter of contract violation, not patent law. I would say the situation is not quite analogous.
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Lord Shonus

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Russia scandal investigation rumbles onward
« Reply #7106 on: June 01, 2017, 03:34:50 pm »

If, however, the farmer were to sell those replantable seeds, the person that bought them could not be penalized under this decision. More relevantly, the cases where Mosanto allegedly went after people who grew patented crops from seeds that blew into their fields would now have no legal leg to stand on.
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Russia scandal investigation rumbles onward
« Reply #7107 on: June 01, 2017, 03:40:54 pm »

Honestly, this is such an unexpectedly positive result for the current political climate that I can't help but feel that there'll be massive caveats that render it ineffectual. The implications for all kinds of intellectual property could be incredible, but it's felt impossible for so long to see progress that I can't help but be skeptical.
I mean... you probably should be? Far as I'm aware the decision doesn't really mean much of anything so far as IP rights go.  You can repair, resale. You can't repair, copy, and resale, reproduce, whatever. The big fiddly bit with IP so far as digital/immaterial stuff goes (and by extension, largely the problem period) is something pretty much completely inapplicable when you're dealing with physical goods. Most knock-on effect I could see is with transformative works (which are already pretty protected, so far as I'm aware), and even that would be pretty sketchy.

It should clarify some stuff for aftermarket/resellers and whatnot, but that's really just kinda' it, far as I'm aware.
As much as I love rolling back copyright, being able to redistribute electronic property would hurt a lot of content creators.  The current "you're buying a license not the thing itself" solution is janky but at least it kinda works.

It would perhaps be workable to force companies to make software keys and licenses transferable provided that sufficient protections were in place (for example requiring you to remove software from one computer to "free" the license and then the new computer you install it on needs to be online at the time of installation).  On one hand it would make DRM much weaker but on the other hand its... not like DRM actually works right now anyway.
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birdy51

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Russia scandal investigation rumbles onward
« Reply #7108 on: June 01, 2017, 04:04:23 pm »

I am disgusted. Fuck. Trump. There are no words I can use that wouldn't break some of Toady's guidelines and possibly U.S Constitution. There is only shame and disgust.
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Gizogin

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Russia scandal investigation rumbles onward
« Reply #7109 on: June 01, 2017, 04:05:59 pm »

If, however, the farmer were to sell those replantable seeds, the person that bought them could not be penalized under this decision. More relevantly, the cases where Mosanto allegedly went after people who grew patented crops from seeds that blew into their fields would now have no legal leg to stand on.

The "Monsanto sues a farmer for growing crops that happened to have been contaminated by GM pollen" thing never had any leg to stand on. When a group of farmers sued Monsanto out of fear of exactly the situation described, it was thrown out because there was no incident where Monsanto had ever actually sued anyone for growing accidentally contaminated crops.

Quote
In response to plaintiffs’ [farmers] letter, defendants [Monsanto] reiterated that it is not their policy to exercise their patent rights against farmers whose fields inadvertently contain trace amounts of patented seeds or traits. In particular, the reply letter referenced plaintiffs’ claim that they do not have any intention of using any transgenic seed and noted that, “[t]aking [that] representation as true, any fear of suit or other action is unreasonable, and any decision not to grow certain crops unjustified.” (FAC, Ex. 4, Letter from Seth P. Waxman, WilmerHale, to Ravicher (Apr. 28, 2011).)

There was one infamous case in 1999 where Monsanto sued Percy Schmeiser, a Canadian canola farmer, for growing "Roundup Ready" crops without having paid the licensing fee. Schmeiser had never actually purchased any of Monsanto's seeds, and he claimed that the crops had been contaminated by GM pollen. In that case, however, Schmeiser had deliberately selected seeds from some of his own crops to replant when he noticed that they demonstrated a resistance to Roundup (due to unintentional cross-pollination from a neighboring field that did use Roundup Ready canola; Schmeiser knew about the GM crops in the neighboring field and performed an experiment to see if any of his nearby crops showed a similar resistance). Monsanto sued because Schmeiser purposefully used seeds that he suspected contained patented GM traits without paying Monsanto's licensing fees; in other words, he intended to infringe on their patent.

In any case, the ultimate decision in that case was that Schmeiser had deliberately infringed on Monsanto's patent, but because doing so didn't benefit him (he had no intention to use Roundup on his crops, which sort of makes you wonder what the point of it all was), he didn't owe Monsanto anything.
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