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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 4460354 times)

Starver

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump fires FBI Dir. Comey, sheneinighans abound
« Reply #6360 on: May 16, 2017, 01:37:32 am »

Make multiple levels, like a big stadium or concert hall.
Loads and loads of levels, around a steeply banked auditorium, so that everyone can hear and see everyone else as best they can.  But, for those taking the 'floor', perhaps arrange for sets of seats (probably grouped per locality of representatives) to actually detach from the sides and be automatically brought out into the centre...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Frumple

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump fires FBI Dir. Comey, sheneinighans abound
« Reply #6361 on: May 16, 2017, 02:32:23 am »

That's a pretty poor description of Enlightenment era techniques. Madison in particular did a ridiculous amount of historic study on what had been done previous to the United States.
Which meant roughly piss all, if you're talking optimal governmental organization or quantifiable danger :P

Can't say we're doing much better now, to a fair extent (due in no small part just because of simple inertia and whatnot), but the tools, methodology, and data, necessary to actually have a go at making an optimal governmental system that isn't functionally half snake oil and a quarter alcohol, just didn't exist prior to a handful of decades ago, and are only starting to become something vaguely worth a damn in recent-ish years to boot. Intensive study of bad/nonexistent data, with relatively sub-par methodology and basically no tools worth mention isn't particularly meaningful, y'know?

Not to disparage the folks' efforts, exactly, but there's a reason working in the sort of conditions with a similar suite of techniques and tools is not what you'd call a prospect being salivated over by folks working in similar fields and on similar issues, nowadays. Some things that were built off some of it as a foundation or earlier starting point or whatev' is more of a thing, but most of that kind of junk in present usage just... doesn't really look much like what they came from, save maybe in a shared terminology or rough outline sort of way.

It was good for its time and in other ways, but its time was also shit and we're talking optimal organization, not academic or ideological rigor or whatever. Madison was physically incapable of studying and observing the sort of information needed for that sort of project (to no small part because it didn't exist and functionally could not be acquired with the infrastructure, technology, and methodology of the time) to be anything but functionally guesswork, and what he did have to work with was at best limited and at worst outright grossly misleading (and that to an extent even beyond what modern efforts have to deal with, which is a hell of a thing).

They tried their damnedest and managed a fair amount that held up to one extent or another, in one sense or another, but so did geocentrists and humorists. Respect is due, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't throw most everything they did out the window or call their stuff good in anything but a sort of relative sense contextual to their time. When you're talking optimal for the enlightenment era, you're more talking least suboptimal for the time in question, heh. Not entirely sure we can manage too terribly much better yet, to be fair, but still. Ratification era might as well have happened on another planet for the extent it's relevant to proposing the question in question today, or analyzing where/if things have substantially cocked up as opposed to being your average snafu. Growth might have broken a confederacy, but the US has long been more some kind of mutant bastard of one that doesn't much look or act anything like 'em.
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misko27

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump fires FBI Dir. Comey, sheneinighans abound
« Reply #6362 on: May 16, 2017, 08:33:07 am »

Trump claims he has 'absolute right' to share intelligence with the Russians

As always, it's worth noting that Trump didn't deny telling Russia the stuff we don't know about; he just claimed here that he has a right to. Which he does, but it's also not what his staff has been saying (They've been big on "Trump did not disclose source or methods", and not mentioning content). I wonder if that's a communications strategy or a legal strategy.

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smjjames

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump fires FBI Dir. Comey, sheneinighans abound
« Reply #6363 on: May 16, 2017, 09:15:55 am »

Trump claims he has 'absolute right' to share intelligence with the Russians

As always, it's worth noting that Trump didn't deny telling Russia the stuff we don't know about; he just claimed here that he has a right to. Which he does, but it's also not what his staff has been saying (They've been big on "Trump did not disclose source or methods", and not mentioning content). I wonder if that's a communications strategy or a legal strategy.

Sounds like a legal strategy on his part, except that he isn't in trouble legally (though I'd get how he might feel he might be in legal trouble). He's still in trouble, just not legal wise.

I can't help but wonder which ally it is that gave that info who also doesn't want it shared with other allies. Whoever they are, they'll be pretty upset with Trump.
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RedKing

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump fires FBI Dir. Comey, sheneinighans abound
« Reply #6364 on: May 16, 2017, 09:57:00 am »

Make multiple levels, like a big stadium or concert hall.
Loads and loads of levels, around a steeply banked auditorium, so that everyone can hear and see everyone else as best they can.  But, for those taking the 'floor', perhaps arrange for sets of seats (probably grouped per locality of representatives) to actually detach from the sides and be automatically brought out into the centre...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That's a terrible photoshop of Mitch McConnell.



At this rate, Putin will have our nuclear launch codes by Memorial Day.
"You know, Mr. President....a true powerful leader has nuclear launch codes. Is a shame you don't have also."
"Oh, I've got them. They're the best codes. They changed it especially for me, so I could remember them. It's 1-2-3-4-5. Same code I have on my luggage, you know that?"
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 10:06:27 am by RedKing »
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martinuzz

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump fires FBI Dir. Comey, sheneinighans abound
« Reply #6365 on: May 16, 2017, 10:20:54 am »

I can only hope that no one in the White House or Pentagon has been lacking in intelligence so much that they gave Trump the actual real launch codes instead of fake ones.
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Zangi

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump fires FBI Dir. Comey, sheneinighans abound
« Reply #6366 on: May 16, 2017, 10:34:15 am »

Trump claims he has 'absolute right' to share intelligence with the Russians

As always, it's worth noting that Trump didn't deny telling Russia the stuff we don't know about; he just claimed here that he has a right to. Which he does, but it's also not what his staff has been saying (They've been big on "Trump did not disclose source or methods", and not mentioning content). I wonder if that's a communications strategy or a legal strategy.

On the other hand, knowing what to watch out for could feasibly save lives in the near future, instead of just letting it happen elsewhere.  In the farther future, probably pushes em toward developing differing methods earlier.
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Rusty Shackleford

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump fires FBI Dir. Comey, sheneinighans abound
« Reply #6367 on: May 16, 2017, 11:07:24 am »

NPR says Trump disclosed the nature of an ISIS plot of somesort in a particular city in Syria but did not say how they found out about it. So its apparently not much of a leak.
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martinuzz

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump fires FBI Dir. Comey, sheneinighans abound
« Reply #6368 on: May 16, 2017, 11:26:14 am »

Anonymous sources from within the agencies say that Dutch miltary and general intelligence services (MIVD and AIVD) will express their concerns up to the highest level with their colleague intelligency agencies of the US, about Trump sharing extremely classified intel to Russia.
They are in no way considering severing relations with, or decreasing cooperation with the US agencies, considering the excellent partnership relations that exist between them.
They will express their concern however, that Trump's loose lips could have endangered allied intelligence assets.

Press agency AP reports that a high ranking source said that an as of yet unnamed EU country is considering to stop sharing intel with US agencies completely.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/aivd-en-mivd-zullen-op-hoogste-niveau-zorgen-uiten-over-lekken-trump-aan-rusland~a4495147/

I hope Trump has hard skin on his wrists, because I think they're gonna be slapped a lot the coming days.
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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

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Rolepgeek

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump fires FBI Dir. Comey, sheneinighans abound
« Reply #6369 on: May 16, 2017, 11:41:39 am »

I have absolutely zero faith in the democratic process at this point, and I will genuinely be shocked if this is resolved peacefully through the ballot box.
And the alt right reactionaries take another victim.

Specifically, here, I'm referring to the people who think democracy is a failure and we need to go back to having a king with absolute power, and the way to have human rights is that there are strong exit rights to leave a given Noble's lands.

I could genuinely believe that they've been trying to break people's faith in democracy via Bannon and co.
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Neonivek

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump fires FBI Dir. Comey, sheneinighans abound
« Reply #6370 on: May 16, 2017, 11:48:07 am »

I could genuinely believe that they've been trying to break people's faith in democracy via Bannon and co.

I do often wonder if somehow the government encourages disenfranchised voters...

But no, the boogeyman of "Alt-right" hasn't done anything here.
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RedKing

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump fires FBI Dir. Comey, sheneinighans abound
« Reply #6371 on: May 16, 2017, 12:16:49 pm »

I have absolutely zero faith in the democratic process at this point, and I will genuinely be shocked if this is resolved peacefully through the ballot box.
And the alt right reactionaries take another victim.

Specifically, here, I'm referring to the people who think democracy is a failure and we need to go back to having a king with absolute power, and the way to have human rights is that there are strong exit rights to leave a given Noble's lands.

I could genuinely believe that they've been trying to break people's faith in democracy via Bannon and co.

Perhaps I should have said "the American democratic process". I haven't lost all faith in the concept of democracy (though I've never been an ardent supporter).

Nor is monarchy the opposite of democracy. The opposite of democracy is "anything not a democracy".
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Sergarr

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Rolepgeek

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump fires FBI Dir. Comey, sheneinighans abound
« Reply #6373 on: May 16, 2017, 12:58:01 pm »

Republic isn't technically a democracy, but I also wouldn't say it's the opposite of one. Feudal absolutist monarchy seems close to at least one opposite of democracy. Not that I'm sure why it being an opposite matters.
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Neonivek

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump fires FBI Dir. Comey, sheneinighans abound
« Reply #6374 on: May 16, 2017, 01:01:11 pm »

Hillary Clinton says she won't run for public office again

And thank God for that.

Also dear goodness that website REALLY doesn't want me to read it...

Seriously websites complain about Ad-Blockers and they put so many ads, especially CPU intensive and intrusive ones that it is requires just to use the website.
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