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[Flying Dice]

Manafort confesses to committing treason before and while working as Trump's campaign manager.

And so the first domino falls. When can we start breaking out the hempen neckties?

[Reelya]

I don't think we have evidence of Manafort actually doing that during his time with Trump. You see, documents filed in 2014 (see the articles) related to the reason Manafort fell out with Deripaska ... Deripaska gave Manafort $19 million for a specific investment and Manafort basically ran away with the money.

[Baffler]

And so the first domino falls. When can we start breaking out the hempen neckties?

As soon as some actual proof is presented, and they get someone who actually matters, and they get them on something that's actually eligible for the death penalty.

Under the Foreign Agents Registration Act, people who lobby in the U.S. on behalf of foreign political leaders or political parties must provide detailed reports about their actions to the department. Willfully failing to register is a felony and can result in up to five years in prison and a fine of up to $250,000, though the government rarely files criminal charges.

According to that article this is what he faces if it's true, so I'm not sure where "treason" is coming from. I'm also not sure where you're getting "confession" from, since the article makes no mention whatsoever of it. Or "while," considering the only thing the article mentions that isn't nearly a decade old got him fired when it was discovered, and even that only lasted until 2014.

[Pwnzerfaust]

Guys, keep discussion of foreigners and their issues somewhere else.

No. This has to do with American politics, and this is the American politics thread.

For reference for PT "I like to make unfounded assumptions" TG's benefit: Here's the results of my ISideWith quiz: Link

[Baffler]

incidentally...

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/devin-nunes-donald-trump-surveillance-obama-236366
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-surveillance-idUSKBN16T2GQ

[Sergarr]

Wasn't he the one talking about how dangerous leaking information about the ongoing investigation to the media is, or was that the other Republican guy?

[Frumple]

... "most likely." Which means more or less nothing, and that nunes apparently doesn't actually know, but is instead taking a guess at things.

Also neat how the guy that, despite heading the committee he's heading, has had no apparent intelligence training or more than a few years on the committee (and less than two heading it) feels he's qualified to state what information he's seen is of little to no importance. Somehow I'm not sure I'm going to default to buying that from the guy that's been loudly claiming the potential russia ties are unimportant, has no substantial personal history that would suggest he knows what he's looking for, and has a fairly blatant political stake in the issue.

Basically, guy confirmed there was legal surveillance of the folks in question and then proceeded to blow a lot of hot air and make noises that looked like he was saying it wasn't much but was actually saying jack all. Damnit all, if someone's going to talk the ass cover dialect of politician to me, I'd at least like it to be fluent and hard to notice

[nenjin]

You're asking for tact out of the Trump Administration. Just think that one through a second. Fuck, the HHS secretary's letter to the states about Medicare read like an insurance brochure. It's not that these guys don't understand tact, they simply don't think it's worth the effort to use it with the American people.

[misko27]

Yeah, the accusation of treason is overblown. The fact that many of Manafort's staff still appear to have contact with Trump (or at least access to the white house, for they have been seen there), at least to me, indicates that this could go a lot deeper than it would first appear.

So maybe not fire, but at least an ember or two.

Well I mean, Manafort was Donald Trump's campaign manager, and during the RNC too.

Guys, keep discussion of foreigners and their issues somewhere else.

No. This has to do with American politics, and this is the American politics thread.

Ugh, this argument again. Look, this is America. America is the global superpower. EVERYTHING UNDER THE SUN IS AMERICAN POLITICS. The EU is American politics. China is American politics. Health, terrorism, the global economy, all roads lead back to Washington DC. But that neither means that everything is worth discussing here, or that it's relevant to do so right now. Right now, nothing is happening on Immigration; instead we have less than 24 hours before Trump's big Obamacare repeal gets a vote, and it looks like it'll be a cliffhanger. And that's a bit more relevant than two forumites trading accusations of racism and xenophilia or whatever.

You're uh, awfully spry for having been in an ER for 24 hours... whichever end of it you were involved in, so I assume everything's ok which is good unless it isn't which is bad, because we're gonna be fuuuuuucked on healthcare if any of this shit goes through.

You must be confusing my ER experience with the ER where something happens. My ER is the one where you stare at a wall until your eyes melt for 24 hours, with the wait broken up by answering questions every so often and listening to a man whine like a baby at the top of his lungs. I've not been so energized to leave a place since the last day of highschool. I'd have limped out on crutches if that was necessary.

Speaking of Healthcare reform, I'll just post the headlines directly:
Current vote count: Obamacare repeal would fail.
Trump appears to be losing battle ahead of healthcare vote.
House Obamacare repeal DOA in the Senate
'All hands on deck' for GOP, Trump as health care vote approaches
Trump's penchant for vengeance casts shadow on health care vote (NEW!)

Meanwhile we have Sean Spicer saying "There is no Plan B" on bill. It'll be a close one. Donald Trump has poured a lot of energy and been more directly involved with getting the votes on this than anything else we've seen him do, so if he fails it'll be a big blow.

[Flying Dice]

And so the first domino falls. When can we start breaking out the hempen neckties?

As soon as some actual proof is presented

Did you read anything of it? I'm struggling to think of evidence better than his own written words.

Yeah, the accusation of treason is overblown.

Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

The only real point of contention is whether Putin's administration can be considered an enemy to the U.S. Given that they are diametrically opposed to us on several key policy areas in the international arena, are still involved with proxy wars with us, and have evidently repeatedly and consistently bribed U.S. citizens to shape our foreign and domestic policy in their favor outside the framework of normal diplomacy, that would be a difficult point to argue.

The fact that many of Manafort's staff still appear to have contact with Trump (or at least access to the white house, for they have been seen there), at least to me, indicates that this could go a lot deeper than it would first appear.

Manafort was his campaign manager up through key stages of the election. It's surely not the slightest bit suspicious that they only gave the outward appearance of parting ways relatively late into the cycle.

[Frumple]

You're asking for tact out of the Trump Administration. Just think that one through a second. Fuck, the HHS secretary's letter to the states about Medicare read like an insurance brochure. It's not that these guys don't understand tact, they simply don't think it's worth the effort to use it with the American people.

Tact, no. Basic competence in framing your words, moreso. If you're going to say sod all at least say it in a way that doesn't make it trivially noticeable you're saying sod all. That it's a freaking intelligence committee head doing it just makes it worse.

... mind, your point still stands, but whatever. Not really asking it, anyway. Just saying it's make things a bit better off in at least some ways.

[EnigmaticHat]

Nunes described the surveillance as most likely being “incidental collection.” This can occur when a person inside the United States communicates with a foreign target of U.S. surveillance. In such cases, the identities of U.S. citizens are supposed to be kept secret — but can be “unmasked” by intelligence officials under certain circumstances.

If this was incidental collection, I want to know who they were talking to.

Do you even need to ask?  Trump and a bunch of people who were part of his campaign staff have all been revealed to have engaged in talk with Russian officials or oligarchs during their times as civilians.  And the entire US intelligence community has agreed that Russia interfered with the election to try and make Trump win.

The real question is, when will Comey decide his investigation into the Trump-Russia ties is concluded, and what will his verdict be?

[PTTG??]

Hold on, you're against anchor babies like Barron Trump? But fine, let's put that behind us for now. I'll agree that we do have bigger issues.

There's basically two kinds of Trump supporters now. Those that are reconsidering it, and those that will not under any circumstances reconsider their views.

For all the smoke-and-fire metaphors, the guy has confessed to committing treason. If you can't see the fire, it's because your eyeballs have already melted.

[Baffler]

Hold on, you're against anchor babies like Barron Trump? But fine, let's put that behind us for now. I'll agree that we do have bigger issues.

There's basically two kinds of Trump supporters now. Those that are reconsidering it, and those that will not under any circumstances reconsider their views.

For all the smoke-and-fire metaphors, the guy has confessed to committing treason. If you can't see the fire, it's because your eyeballs have already melted.

Since you seem to have missed it the first time:

Under the Foreign Agents Registration Act, people who lobby in the U.S. on behalf of foreign political leaders or political parties must provide detailed reports about their actions to the department. Willfully failing to register is a felony and can result in up to five years in prison and a fine of up to $250,000, though the government rarely files criminal charges.

According to that article this is what he faces if it's true, so I'm not sure where "treason" is coming from. I'm also not sure where you're getting "confession" from, since the article makes no mention whatsoever of it.

[BorkBorkGoesTheCode]

I doubt it, but is anybody watching the Gorsuch confirmation hearing?