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[smjjames]

If you're looking for political savvy, you're... kinda' looking at the wrong administration. It's going to be a while before you see political strategy out of that lot become much of a thing. If ever.

Me and Lord Shonus were talking about Congress rather than the Trump adminstration because Congress did it on their own initiative, Trump was just piggybacking the whole 'Obamacare sucks' thing.

@Lord Shonus, whatever their motivations are, mainly to get it the heck out of the way maybe, they're attacking it head on this early.

[Frumple]

The point still stands

Less flippantly, trump and his lot are a pretty heavy yoke around the neck of congressional republicans, who haven't really been pursuing much of a strategy besides "make gov't smaller and worse functioning" for while now even without that. Strategy, even assuming they can manage to attempt it, is going to be pretty sketchy for a good long time unless there's some serious and sudden changes to how they operate.

[Max™]

There's a good chance that they are in such a situation by pushing this early. Politically, the sensible thing would have been to start pushing this fall, giving them enough time to get a bill out before the 2018 elections, but while keeping Obamacare as a scapegoat for any problems.

They had to push it through now to use reconciliation to only require a 50.1% vote rather than needing a full 60 or 2/3rds or whatever.

The Best Healthcare Plan Ever

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/1275/text
Read the title.

[Lord Shonus]

The Best Healthcare Plan Ever

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/1275/text
Read the title.

I was deliberately referencing that.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

The Best Healthcare Plan Ever

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/1275/text
Read the title.

I was deliberately referencing that.

Oh ho, you sly dog, you and your ironic references on the internet, ah ha...

ahahhhaAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH-

*crick* *crack*

[smjjames]

There's a good chance that they are in such a situation by pushing this early. Politically, the sensible thing would have been to start pushing this fall, giving them enough time to get a bill out before the 2018 elections, but while keeping Obamacare as a scapegoat for any problems.

They had to push it through now to use reconciliation to only require a 50.1% vote rather than needing a full 60 or 2/3rds or whatever.

The Best Healthcare Plan Ever

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/1275/text
Read the title.

For a second I was like 'wait, what's Sessions, the AG, doing there as a sponsor?', but that's the other 'Sessions' in Congress.

[Max™]

The Best Healthcare Plan Ever

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/1275/text
Read the title.

I was deliberately referencing that.

Yeah, but uh, they obviously did come up with the worlds greatest healthcare plan, at least of 2017, so I grant the "ever" part isn't certain, but it's not like they can just call something that without it being true, who do you think these guys are, congress?

*stops to speak off camera briefly*

Erm, I've been informed that this is in fact congress doing it... Armok help us all.

[Akura]

As lawmakers wade through the document to make revisions over the coming months, they might notice that the Trump administration’s boast that it has taken away the parts of Obamacare that people do not like, for example, being fined if they do not purchase coverage, is inaccurate. The penalty still applies but this time Americans will pay to their insurance provider, not the government.

I don't even....

Took me a bit to catch up on the thread here, but is this constitutional? One of the major Supreme Court challenges for Obamacare was whether or not the penalty was allowed by the Constitution - it was since the penalty was paid via taxes, and taxation is allowed by the Constitution. Also, if someone doesn't have coverage, who exactly are they paying? Who is "their insurance provider" if they do not have insurance?

[Frumple]

Kicks in once they try to get back on coverage, apparently. Haven't seen commentary as to how constitutional it is, though yeah, I'd probably guess the answer is a fairly distinctive "not".

[smjjames]

As lawmakers wade through the document to make revisions over the coming months, they might notice that the Trump administration’s boast that it has taken away the parts of Obamacare that people do not like, for example, being fined if they do not purchase coverage, is inaccurate. The penalty still applies but this time Americans will pay to their insurance provider, not the government.

I don't even....

Took me a bit to catch up on the thread here, but is this constitutional? One of the major Supreme Court challenges for Obamacare was whether or not the penalty was allowed by the Constitution - it was since the penalty was paid via taxes, and taxation is allowed by the Constitution. Also, if someone doesn't have coverage, who exactly are they paying? Who is "their insurance provider" if they do not have insurance?

Kicks in once they try to get back on coverage, apparently. Haven't seen commentary as to how constitutional it is, though yeah, I'd probably guess the answer is a fairly distinctive "no".

What if they don't have insurance though, which in that case, would be the usual, they'd get stuck with the bill, or maybe the government.

Haven't seen commentary as to how constitutional it is, though yeah, I'd probably guess the answer is a fairly distinctive "no".

Haven't seen anything discussing the constitutionality of it either.

[Frumple]

Being able to opt out is one of the changes. If you don't have insurance, you don't have insurance. It's just there to fuck you when/if you decide to try to opt back in. Least is how I've seen it explained, so far, and reading the actual writing (title 1, subtitle b) seems to back it.

[MrRoboto75]

"In Pursuit of Health Care" is a legendary spinal bound codex.  All craftsdwarfmanship is of the lowest level.  The written portion consists of a 45 page essay entitled "In Pursuit of Healthcare", authored by Donald Trump.  It concerns of secrets of life and death.  The writing is crude and self indulgent.  Overall, the writing is not awful, but not very good either.

[Max™]

Opting out is such a stupid fucking idea too, like, "how did the shitbag who suggested it not choke to death on their shoes that morning?" stupid.

Forcing people to get insurance means the risk pool contains lots of healthy people and a few sick people, letting healthy people opt out leaves sick people in the pool, yay higher premiums, which means more healthy people opting out, and if you have to pay MORE to get back in, well, you're not gonna do it unless you're really sick... this is the best idea ever guys!

[Frumple]

And opting in may mean some combination of no home, no education, no transportation, no food, no future if you're dependent on squirreling away money and the rest of your fiscal necessities/commitments leaves only that few thousand a year free, etc., etc. It's definitely stupid on the net and consequently stupid on the personal level, but it's also rather understandable why someone healthy would choose to skimp on the part that isn't having an immediate effect and can actually be dealt with in the future if they're better off by that point, unlike that better off where you're often pretty fucked if you don't deal with the foundational parts now.

Don't mistake it, it's a terrible goddamn idea but it's a terrible goddamn idea that's at least as much symptom as cause of our terrible goddamn healthcare system. Only so much I'll blame the folks choosing to not, at least among those for whom it's a significant burden and not just a fraction of the year's entertainment budget.

[smjjames]

Opting out is such a stupid fucking idea too, like, "how did the shitbag who suggested it not choke to death on their shoes that morning?" stupid.

Forcing people to get insurance means the risk pool contains lots of healthy people and a few sick people, letting healthy people opt out leaves sick people in the pool, yay higher premiums, which means more healthy people opting out, and if you have to pay MORE to get back in, well, you're not gonna do it unless you're really sick... this is the best idea ever guys!

Yep, as cartoon from Vox illustrates.

The other problem is incentivising the healthy people to STAY in healthcare, which is kind of the root of the problem as well.

edit: What frumple said as well.