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[Reelya]

(ex. That NASA scientist who was hounded from his position for wearing a risqué shirt his friend made for him to celebrate the success of the project his team had been working on for years.)

That ESA scientist who apologised for his (shop bought?) shirt but doesn't appear to have been actually hounded from anything?

Or are you mixing it up with the biochemist whose impromptu speech didn't get received as positively as he'd planned.

Yeah, he's talking about that ESA  guy who landed the probe on the comet. As for "not hounded" - the reason it's an issue is precisely because he was hounded. He publicly broke down and cried over the matter. A bunch of losers on social media basically tried to destroy someone's science career over a bad fashion choice.

It's why we've all heard about it, and yes, social media witchhunts do destroy careers, as in Tim Hunt's case - btw the "sexist joke" he told was actually auto-biographical - he married his research assistant, and made a joke about how one of the risks of working with female scientists is falling in love with them: clearly a reference to himself and his wife. Bye bye career now.

BTW the shirt was one he'd been given as a birthday present by a female friend who's an artist / fashion designer. She's publicly defended him and said she was elated that he wore her shirt design at the press conference. So this really is a case of a public witchhunt of the type that you get in the social media age. Direct media is both a blessing and a curse. Not one person went and asked him what's up with the shirt, and even if they did, a reasonable explanation is going to gain traction in social media against anger-driven memes.

[PTTG??]

Does that compare with systematically torturing teenagers and diving them to suicide?

In other news Buchanan finally gets to move up to second worst, so there's that.

[Max™]

Oh lord I didn't even catch all that shit (as I was paying attention to just the science story parts) but damn, I can imagine she was like "hey, I appreciate all the extra traffic and attention, but uh... wtf yo?" over the whole thing.

In other news, he almost got them all in the right order, somebody earned himself an ice cream cone if he finishes his vegetables.

[Reelya]

Reelya is underestimating the effect that sjw-ism is having on real life because they've never encountered it (ex. That NASA scientist who was hounded from his position for wearing a risqué shirt his friend made for him to celebrate the success of the project his team had been working on for years.)

Weird on the other hand is drastically over blowing their wide-scale importance and screaming and whipping them self into a frenzy for no fucking reason. Just because something is bad and real doesn't make it a giant institution.


Neither of you are 'moderates' here. Both of you are selectively picking and choosing evidence to support a distorted worldview and rejecting the other categorically.

I have to bring this up, but what the fuck are you even talking about and how is it related to me, by name? I didn't even mention anything about SJWs or non-SJWs so shut the fuck up. I'm not downplaying or upplaying anything to do with SJWs, because they weren't part of the conversation before wierd interjected.

What I said was that the white-collar executive/corporate class are the guys who've lost out to the political change. Wierd jumped in and said "no it's SJWs" but that was straight before your post I quoted. So no I didn't "underestimate the effect of sjw-ism" because I wasn't involved in any discussion about that. You just jumped in because Wierd said "no your wrong it's about SJWs" so you being against SJWs hav to be against whoever Wierd disagreed with, even though my post wasn't connected with SJWs in any means whatsoever.

But wierd also thinks that Tax Credits are free money for the poor (they're not) and that we should stop the poor being poor by selling shares to them. His grasp on basic tax laws and economics seems sketchy, so I wouldn't quote him as a great expert on the demographic make-up of the corporate sector.

Saying SJWs ran the country is like saying Black Lives Matters is behind the civil rights movement. It's BS.

[chaoticag]

This story apparently. also ESA and not NASA, and he kept his position, and it wasn'teven made to celebrate his position so far as I can tell. I'm expecting this story will feature giant robots in 10 years.

[Antioch]

Does that compare with systematically torturing teenagers and diving them to suicide?

(...)

I would say systemic bullying most certainly leads to people committing suicide.

But what is the point of that question in the first place? Is it something we have to choose between? Isn't it plain obvious that both are despicable?

[Reelya]

IDK people are getting messed up with a whole bunch of misplaced associations.

I've been both accused of being for and against SJWs, right and left wing in the space of two pages based on stuff I never said.

Does that compare with systematically torturing teenagers and diving them to suicide?

This is a non-sequiter and it's also 100% "oppression olympics" logic, because nobody actually contrasted anything with that, they just brought up that one issue. you can always find something worse no matter what issue is brought up. That doesn't by itself negate the wrongs of any one issue.

I mean, the suicide rate among college-age men is 4 times that of women, but you can't bring that up because "oppression olympics". Also, as noted in the article, basically nobody has even bothered to research the issue. Nobody could be fucked, screw them. So yes, young men are committing suicide because they believe they live in a world where nobody actually cares about their problems, and that's backed up by the fact that not one researcher could be bothered to working out why they kill themselves in such high numbers. Unless they can attach some trendy issue to it, apparently.

So lots of college boys kill themselves, but we spend all our dollars on talking about the "problem" of college boys and trying to socially engineer them. If there's a very male-hostile environment on many colleges then I'd imagine that at least some of them are pushed over the edge by the sum total of all that. e.g. there was one shy maths guy who apparently was completely mortified of any contact with women because of the "gender training" where they explained that if you e.g. touched a woman's elbow by mistake that could be construed as sexual assault. Sure, the sexual assault codes at some of these colleges mean well, but they effectively criminalize sexuality of one gender, which just happens to be the gender most prone to suicide, at a time in life when people are still growing and working out social boundaries.

[Max™]

https://twitter.com/aravosis/status/833111655789768705/video/1

I honestly didn't expect the twist at the end there, for some reason.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

'Here, let me get the door for you.'
"Thanks honey."
'No problem, Donald.'

[Neonivek]

"oppression olympics"

I know I am probably not the one who came up with that term... But I am surprised it has caught on after I've used it (probably unrelated).

It was usually to describe the attitude people had when they went "Ohh you have a problem? Well I have it worse... Lets ignore you, and help me!" as if it was some sort of context. I believe I called it the "Suffering Olympics" though.

The typical image they used to justify the suffering Olympics is that men have like a bruised elbow and women are bleeding out on the street. Who should the ambulance pick up? Which honestly? I think it is PERFECTLY 100% apt for why the Oppression Olympics doesn't work.

Wheeee how things change.

[Reelya]

My point was that one-upping is just another example of Opression Olympics logic. You can always one-up. The idea is to dismiss the original complaint or issue. But the logic is just as faulty as the male/bruised elbow type of argument.

Although your male/bruised elbow is a bit of a straw man. Most often men's advocates bring up these issues:

- lack of concern / spending on male cancers (prostate cancer etc) compared to breast cancer (there's about 2.5 times as much per victim spent on the girl cancers).

- lack of concern over male suicides

- lack of concern over 96% of workplace deaths being male

- CDC survey reports showing that non-consensual sex is at parity for men/women, and that in almost all cases the perpetrator is of the opposite gender. Of course this is no way invalidates any rape claims, but it blows apart the gendered analysis of rape. About 1 million men and women are sexually assaulted by the other gender every year in what are legally equivalent to rape.

- Survey results on domestic violence showing a large amount of parity in those too, despite what the media says. Quite a lot of data on this one, too, going back to the 1970s. Often the gender researchers have been accused of cherry-picking findings from the surveys to tell a specifically gendered narrative which is not actually born by the evidence.

^ In these two examples, the problem is that the gendered narrative creates a false model of exactly how something works. And if you have a false model, then your solutions are all going to be a little off or miss great sources of harm, for both genders.

- males losing access to their children through biased courts

All of those are real issues which are serious issues.

[Neonivek]

Although your male/bruised elbow is a bit of a straw man.

Yep it sure is! Thank goodness I am not the one who invented that imagery

I just like to remember it because not only is it the epitome of the oppression Olympics but even within the example itself it shows a serious problem with the system (Hey moron... Take both people to the hospital... also just because the man isn't bleeding it doesn't mean he doesn't have internal injuries such as an Infarction)

[chaoticag]

- males losing access to their children through biased courts

Um, only 4% of all custody cases go to courts. That's not a large enough number to make women 2/3rds more likely to get custody of children.

[Frumple]

So yes, young men are committing suicide because they believe they live in a world where nobody actually cares about their problems, and that's backed up by the fact that not one researcher could be bothered to working out why they kill themselves in such high numbers. Unless they can attach some trendy issue to it, apparently.

<snip>happens to be the gender most prone to suicide, at a time in life when people are still growing and working out social boundaries.

No. Like, I don't really care about the rest of this discussion, but this is shit that needs to stop being repeated. We know exactly why young men kill themselves 3-4x times more often than women in the US: It's because of suicide method. Researchers have not only bothered to work out why, it was bloody goddamn obvious so far as psych stats go. Young women still attempt to kill themselves significantly more than young men (it's still around 3x, near as I can tell). Men aren't even remotely more prone to suicide, college age or not, they're just more likely to use a gun or hang themselves to try and that generates a lot more corpses even when it's not used as often.

Beyond that, seriously, no, we actually know and have known for a while most of what the hell causes suicide in both genders, why males are both more likely to die and less likely to seek help, and all that rot. This isn't some kind of weird junk that's being left by the roadside because it's not trendy or some kind of bullshit like that, it's you expressing a profound ignorance of research related to suicide.

[Reelya]

Beyond that, seriously, no, we actually know and have known for a while most of what the hell causes suicide in both genders, why males are both more likely to die and less likely to seek help, and all that rot. This isn't some kind of weird junk that's being left by the roadside because it's not trendy or some kind of bullshit like that, it's you expressing a profound ignorance of research related to suicide.

But it's that attitude. Any problem that specifically seems to affect men: "haven't we already done enough". Well clearly not, if one group is disproportionately suffering some outcome.

You can google "USA male college suicides" and you get some medical journal articles claiming nothing is being done. Not a single American news journal has written anything on the topic as far as I can see. And that's the problem: basically nobody is interested in the issue. And it's not just me saying so: it's Psychology Today and BC Medical Journal, i.e. the medical research community:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/boys-men/201308/young-men-who-commit-suicide

Suicides among young males are four times more common than among young female, and they are occurring among ever younger males, some in their early teens. Little is understood about what motivates boys and young men to take their lives in such numbers. Of as great concern is another fact: little effort has been made to understand the trend.

http://www.bcmj.org/articles/silent-epidemic-male-suicide

Suicide in men has been described as a “silent epidemic”: epidemic because of its high incidence and substantial contribution to men’s mortality, and silent be­cause of a lack of public awareness, a paucity of explanatory research, and the reluctance of men to seek help for suicide-related concerns.

So I have two mainstream medical journal articles written by PhD researchers saying there's been a dearth of research on this issue. I'm going to take their word for it over unsourced statements. There's a circular logic here: we don't know what the exact motivations are because nobody will research it, and they won't research it because of attitudes such as yours that it's not worth researching it because we "already been over that", even though we clearly haven't ... since no research on this topic exists.

BTW, I googled "Male suicide news" and every single article was either in the UK or Australia, so there really is a very low level of coverage for this issue in the American media. It's specific to America actually. Maybe that has something to do with why American men are reluctant to seek help. And no, guns doesn't explain it as the gender gap persists in countries that are almost completely gun-free.

[Neonivek]

It seriously begs questions that I will not ask because that would be like forcing this thread to swallow a suicide pill.

Bad enough we got the ultimate vague SJW term floating about.