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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 4244344 times)

itisnotlogical

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1770 on: February 14, 2017, 02:23:03 am »

Hey, they were trying. Superman's got his hand on the little Asian kid's head! That's gotta count for something.
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Neonivek

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1771 on: February 14, 2017, 02:25:13 am »

One of the kids is a Red head.

Which REMEMBER Irish don't get white privilege in the USA at the time.
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Max™

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1772 on: February 14, 2017, 02:32:11 am »

Was gonna say, one of them is a soulless ginger monster and lucky it's allowed on the streets without getting a fist through the chest from Mr. Could-rip-people-apart-like-a-Viltrumite-but-doesn't there.
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Neonivek

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1773 on: February 14, 2017, 02:34:40 am »

Not to mention that the USA used to have more races back then.

But we combined them into "White" :P
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misko27

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1774 on: February 14, 2017, 03:01:41 am »

Maybe it's just the straw that broke the camels back? *shrug*
Nothing about the Trump Administration has suggested that it can be broken by mere quantity of scandal. Something must have been different.

Not to mention that the USA used to have more races back then.

But we combined them into "White" :P
Who is this we? Canada ain't invited to the freedom party here. We just discussed this.

Was gonna say, one of them is a soulless ginger monster and lucky it's allowed on the streets without getting a fist through the chest from Mr. Could-rip-people-apart-like-a-Viltrumite-but-doesn't there.
I like redheads. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Flying Dice

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1775 on: February 14, 2017, 03:49:57 am »

Not to mention that the USA used to have more races back then.

But we combined them into "White" :P
It's more convenient to forget that ethnic groups like the Irish, Chinese, and Poles got just as much shit during their immigration waves as Hispanics and Arabs do now. 110% racism, definitely to do with skin color rather than the same old xenophobia which damn near every group of people has experienced when inundated with a sudden surge of outsiders. You could define eras of American history based on which group of immigrants was the acceptable target of the time, but no, it's definitely a brand new thing that has only ever affected vaguely brown people. Can't be bigoted against Euroamericans or Asian-Americans. Unless some of their ancestors were from Spain or Portugal, then it's racism even though they're caucasian aaaaa it's 3:50 AM I got work tomorrow fuuuuuuuuuuuuck.
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chaoticag

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1776 on: February 14, 2017, 04:48:31 am »

It's... entirely possible to be both, xenophobic and racist? These are not mutually exclusive things where it is one or the other. Also uh, last I did look, when filling in race on a forum when doing the SAT or whatever while I was in the States, the race I did have to put down was White. And there are people out there who still toss racial slurs out at Arabs, I'm willing to say there at least a tiiiiiny sliver of racism in that xenophobia.

It's also a little odd saying that hate against Hispanics is more xenophobia everyone had to deal with at some point when quite a few states used to be Mexican provinces. The hate they get hasn't blunted despite having more than a few generations as US citizens compared to the Irish, the Italians, the Poles... I could go on.
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Starver

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1777 on: February 14, 2017, 05:21:53 am »

Mike Flynn has now resigned. Not surprising considering that there was breaking news that he could be, or possibly is, compromised by his relations with Russia.
Quote
A representative for Yates say that she no comment.
...which makes it look like like she has compromising connections with Cod China.

As to Trump's place... I saw Francis Urquart Underwood get his place transformed without seeminly changing the material of the original set. All it takes is a few minutes of working montages behind the main chatacters who are forced to act in slightly louder raised voices than normal for the duration.
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palsch

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1778 on: February 14, 2017, 06:36:43 am »

Now, I wonder who the heck is going to be the top National Security advisor? I've seen Petraeus be mentioned once. CNN seems to be unsure who the acting NS advisor is :/

The three names seem to be Keith Kellogg, Bob Harward and David Petreus.

Kellogg is the current acting National Security Advisor. He was promoted over the current deputy, KT McFarland, who had faced her own problems. She has previously been caught embellishing her credentials when she served under the Regan administration (claiming she worked on the "Star Wars" speech when she didn't) and has faced general accusations of incompetence.

Kellogg himself was a fairly early supporter of Trump, but I don't have the best handle on where his views rest. Probably closer to Mattis than Flynn, but still close to Trump on his priorities and worldview. If I had to guess, Trump will give it to him given his early loyalty and support.

Petreus still has that revoked military clearance, misdemeanour guilty plea and undying hatred of the FBI and many others in the IC and military. Leaking highly classified secrets to your mistress will do that. Otherwise considered an excellent choice who would be fairly independent.

Harward served directly under Mattis. He has relevant experience on the NSC and NCC. Of the three he looks most qualified to me, although his ties to Mattis do need to be taken into consideration. There were already some fears that too many in the senior advisor roles are drawn from a very tight circle (those who served with/under Mattis), making for limited viewpoints during debates over actions. This would take that trend further. Despite his qualifications his lack of celebrity or public support for Trump suggest to me he will lose out to Kellogg. Also he graduated high school in Iran so might not be able to get back into the country after foreign trips.

EDIT: Now looks like leaning towards Haward.


Notably, Flynn resigned only for lying to the Vice President. Nothing else was mentioned in his resignation letter. It looks like they are hoping his resignation will allow the to ignore the substantive charges against him. Down to Congressional Democrats to keep the investigations rolling, even if the Republicans who head the committees are trying to ignore it. Nunes looks more interested in investigating the sources of the leaks than the substance of the accusations.

There is a special edition of Rational Security, a national security podcast recorded by relative insiders, recorded before the resignation here where they discuss a lot of the aspects of Flynn's actions. One thing they mentioned was the overall timeline of his phone call. Essentially the transition team were briefed in the morning on the sanctions that were to be put on Russia in the afternoon. Between the briefing and Russians being notified of the sanctions (about 4 1/2 hours) Flynn had five phone calls with the Russian ambassador. The Russians then had no reaction to the sanctions. Susan Hennessey, a former IC lawyer whose twitter feed is great for keeping up to date on things, also suggests that the ongoing investigation would be an counter-intelligence investigation, not a Logan Act (criminal, but likely unenforceable) investigation. Lots of other interesting discussions in there as well.


In unrelated news, Obamacare repeal is running into some problems. House Republicans want to do a full repeal, including the Medicare expansion. Suggestions from the Senate suggest that will lose them more than a dozen Republican senators, making repeal on that basis likely impossible. This seems a reasonable rundown of the main players.


EDIT: We also have the Trump administration's first overseas terror suspect. He was captured in Yemin and is currently being held overseas. He is wanted in New York. Trump pledged to send terror suspects to Guantánamo Bay. This is the first test of that pledge.

EDIT2: Trump hired 64 foreign workers for Mar-a-Lago on H2B visas. This is the resort where he is now having unsecured security briefings in front of the paying public, so it's nice to know he doesn't view foreign workers as potential security risks. At least when he is paying them.

EDIT3: Andy Puzder might be facing a tough confirmation as Labor Secretary. Four Republicans are withholding their support ahead of hearings, mostly related to his previous hiring of an undocumented housekeeper. There are plenty of other issues with him that the Democrats are likely to hammer him on.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2017, 07:12:03 am by palsch »
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sluissa

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1779 on: February 14, 2017, 10:06:35 am »

It is important to note that backchannel, i.e. unofficial communications between different national intelligence communities is, very very common, even between countries with strained relations.

Even during the cold war there were double agents on both sides known on both sides to be double agents that were consciously used to pass information between in an unofficial capacity.

It may be this was simply approved protocol and flynn only stepped in it when he lied. (Although the bad press certainly comes with its own consequences. And probably pushed them to attack the matter.)
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palsch

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1780 on: February 14, 2017, 10:50:13 am »

It is important to note that backchannel, i.e. unofficial communications between different national intelligence communities is, very very common, even between countries with strained relations.

Even during the cold war there were double agents on both sides known on both sides to be double agents that were consciously used to pass information between in an unofficial capacity.

It may be this was simply approved protocol and flynn only stepped in it when he lied. (Although the bad press certainly comes with its own consequences. And probably pushed them to attack the matter.)

Oh, I don't really doubt that his actions were taken in accordance with Trump's views, maybe even explicit permission. They were perfectly in line with his past statements and actions. Flynn's past is well known and public, and that is why Trump hired him. I think that the incompetence that was overlooked for his Russia and Islam views has caught up with him here.

Also, known double agents were traditionally put into mushroom boxes; kept in the dark and fed shit. You don't put them in charge of the National Security Council will full access to confidential materials, briefings and calls.
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Sheb

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1781 on: February 14, 2017, 10:57:45 am »

Also, known double agents were traditionally put into mushroom boxes; kept in the dark and fed shit. You don't put them in charge of the National Security Council will full access to confidential materials, briefings and calls.

That is a wonderful sentence.
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palsch

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1782 on: February 14, 2017, 11:06:08 am »

Also, known double agents were traditionally put into mushroom boxes; kept in the dark and fed shit. You don't put them in charge of the National Security Council will full access to confidential materials, briefings and calls.

That is a wonderful sentence.

Can't say I know the origin, but I know Charles Stross uses it a lot.

This post is beautiful and brutal and I want to marry it.
Quote from:  Bannon in Washington: A Report on the Incompetence of Evil
As an astute acquaintance put it, we can best understand Bannon not as Darth Vader or Rasputin but as an angry blogger sitting in front of his computer tapping out a post on how he would run things if he were in charge. The difference is that, in this case, Steve Bannon actually actually in charge.

Incompetence has a lot of dangers. My libertarian panic may have calmed somewhat, but I’m still deeply concerned, for example, about the profound disorganization that apparently plagues the National Security Council, and about the Trump administration’s willingness to conduct a hurried strategy session over the recent North Korean missile launch in full view of paying guests at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago club, with classified documents lit by camera lights from cell phones that could have been compromised by foreign intelligence. I’m concerned about the dismantling of NATO, the alienation of America’s international allies, and the looming possibility of a botched White House response to an international crisis. I’m concerned about Trump’s bizarre connections to the Kremlin, a worry unmitigated by the recent resignation of National Security Advisor Michael Flynn.

But that being said, it’s very hard to dismantle major democratic institutions without a certain degree of capability. The establishment of authoritarianism takes both effort and cunning. And I’m much less worried than I was that these folks have the kind of cunning and focus it would take to take down the American experiment.

And for that I say, thanks, Steve Bannon.
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Phmcw

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1783 on: February 14, 2017, 11:20:41 am »

Sorry to pull up a godwin, but Hitler was an idiot with a team of amateurs. He pretty much lost the war by himself by disregarding his general's advices, though his sheer impredictability allowed him a lot of early successes.
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palsch

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump Immigration Boogaloo edition
« Reply #1784 on: February 14, 2017, 11:30:22 am »

Two pieces from a different direction;

Jack Goldsmith believes the real danger from Trump is too weak a presidency.
Quote from: The Real Constitutional Danger
We also need a strong, competent, well-organized Executive branch to keep us safe from threats abroad.  Weakness and disorganization and uncertain fortitude in foreign and defense policy invite aggressive actions from adversaries.   I have confidence in Mathis and Tillerson.  But I also have little doubt that there is a connection between the President’s reckless foreign policy tweeting, his attacks on the intelligence community, and disarray in the National Security Council, on the one hand, and the recent North Korean and Iranian missile tests (among other recent provocations), on the other.  Weak presidencies enhance the likelihood of a foreign policy crisis that weak presidents are ill-suited to redress, and indeed that often bring out the worse in a weak president—especially one who is thin-skinned, uninformed, and impulsive.

Similarly, Andy Wright argues Trump's actions are weakening America's power on the world stage.
Quote from:  American Disempowerment Begins at Home
Dismissive signals have not just been confined to the diplomatic bureaucracy. The White House has also undermined its top two politically appointed diplomats. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and United Nations Ambassador Nikki Haley both had encounters with the White House that assuredly left them diminished in the eyes of their foreign counterparts. On Friday, Haley blocked the appointment of former Palestinian Prime Minister Salam Fayyad to be the UN’s special representative to Libya, reversing herself after she had greenlighted it to U.N. leadership. As reported by Foreign Policy, “senior U.S. officials in Washington and New York assured U.N. Secretary General Antonio Guterres and other diplomats that they would accept him for the job.” Fayyad is generally regarded as a moderate in the Palestinian-Israeli context, although Israel objected to his appointment. After the United States objected, Guterres called Fayyad “the right person for the right job at the right time.” His rejection may be debatable as a matter of policy. But Haley’s about face will have lasting consequences for her credibility at the United Nations. Now, foreign diplomats wonder whether Haley even “has her mercurial boss’s ear.”

Similarly, Trump rejected Tillerson’s request to appoint longtime Reagan and Bush foreign policy aide Elliott Abrams as Deputy Secretary of State. Abrams is not without controversy: He pled guilty to concealing knowledge of arms sales in the Iran-Contra affair, for which President George H.W. Bush pardoned him. But it was Abrams’ campaign criticism of Trump, not his criminality, which drove the president’s decision. But putting aside the merits of Abrams as a choice, this flap sends an unmistakable signal to the world that Tillerson may not be on the same page as Trump.
...
At present, though, the White House is undermining both his new appointees and the old hands, leaving the world with the impression that these diplomatic professionals do not speak on behalf of the president nor do they have his ear. Foreign governments will take their cues. The White House’s dismissiveness will make it much more difficult for U.S. diplomats to secure counter-terrorism assistance in the Horn of Africa, open up supply routes for troops in Afghanistan, gain access to rare earth minerals in South America, and level effective multilateral sanctions against entities affiliated with ISIS.

I mostly want to spread these pieces as they make a strong argument that Trump is weak exactly where his supporters see - and Republicans demand - strength. He is weakening America's national security and foreign policy, destroying any chance of achieving the muscular goals he set out during the campaign while putting lives at risk at home and elsewhere.
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