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[Loud Whispers]

Good old Yuri. They did not listen, they did not know how.

tfw demoralized nation

In more interesting news, the biology of political difference: "Liberals and Conservatives remember about the same overall, but Conservatives remember the negative images much better, liberals remember the positive images much better... And it really is easy to predict who is a liberal or conservative simply on the basis of looking at brain activation patterns."
Explains why the two tend to half half-empty and half-full ways of looking at things

[Reelya]

If you look at the polls vs the final percentage that actually went to Clinton vs Trump, the polls were in fact right. I linked the data before. They predicted 48.5% popular vote for Clinton, she got 48%, they predicted I think 44.9% popular vote for Trump, he got 45.9%. For both major candidates, the popular vote prediction was within 1% of the actual result, which means 99 out of 100 people the polled were representative. They can only poll a few thousand people per poll, to select a representative sample and have 99/100 accuracy is in fact no mean feat.

BTW, most of the increase for Trump came from a slump in the Gary Johnson vote, who got about half what the polls said he would. So that's what the polls missed: that voters would ditch Johnson at the last minute to vote on 2-party terms, almost all going to Trump. But the poll data wasn't wrong - those people wanted Johnson - but they didn't vote for him.

[smjjames]

PMd some people regarding conduct in these threads.  I'd prefer to see an end to the various personal attacks, trolling and other nonsense.  If there's room for a reasonable discussion, we can continue to have this thread.

nonsense just had to happen while I was asleep XD

Though at least PPTG censored himself when he was going too far.

[Loud Whispers]

Oy, man, stop repeating that fake news.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The polls, at most, underestimated Trump's share of votes in states solidly going to Trump. Nationally, he was a simple polling margin of error away from Clinton. The polls were not wrong. No matter how many times you say this, the polls were not wrong.
Not to say that the media didn't fuck up reporting on the polls constantly. That's on them, not the data.
More clear.

Americans pls, you're getting too Orwellian. It's getting too creepy when you're saying things are wrong are not wrong.

[Criptfeind]

Heh, you know at the second article you linked to is agreeing with Ispil right?

[Telgin]

Good old Yuri. They did not listen, they did not know how.

tfw demoralized nation

In more interesting news, the biology of political difference: "Liberals and Conservatives remember about the same overall, but Conservatives remember the negative images much better, liberals remember the positive images much better... And it really is easy to predict who is a liberal or conservative simply on the basis of looking at brain activation patterns."
Explains why the two tend to half half-empty and half-full ways of looking at things

Stuff like this makes me wonder how I ever ended up so liberal.  I have a pretty negative outlook on life, remember negative things much more easily than positive things and even grew up in the middle of South Carolina where people will still openly claim, to wide approval, that blacks and whites marrying is a terrible thing and that gay couples steal babies from "real" couples.

Maybe conservatism is like a black hole.  As everyone around me spiraled inward at increasing velocities, rather than being sucked in to never escape I was one of the lucky ones to be ejected at relativistic velocities at an orthogonal angle.

[martinuzz]

The Dutch bank ABN Amro, has announced it will cancel it's 45 million dollar loan to one of the companies involved in the construction of the Dakota pipeline, Energy Transfer Equity, unless the US government can peacefully come to a solution that is acceptable for the Sioux natives.

It is possible that ABN will face a large fine for cancelling the loan, but the bank is prepared to pay the toll.

With this announcement, their competitiion, the Dutch ING bank, sees it's hand forced. ING is a direct investor in the Dakota pipeline, with a 248 million dollar investment. In a response, ING senior staff member Ralph Hamers has said that ING is legally bound to the investment. But he did promise that the bank will put pressurre on it's fellow investors to try and ensure that all parties are heard. He also promised to speak with the Sioux tribe to hear their objections.

[TheBiggerFish]

Go them.

[Folly]

After listening to Trump's prayer speech this morning, I'm now more convinced than ever that Trump is a monster. Like, Dexter style, incapable of empathy or other normal human emotions, driven to kill us all just because he's bored type of monster.

But then, I feel that way about most anyone who gives a religiously motivated speech, without respect or consideration for other peoples values and beliefs. So...meh.

You have some pretty tough hombres in Mexico that you may need help with. We are willing to help with that big-league, but they have be knocked out and you have not done a good job knocking them out.

It sounds to me like Trump is basically proposing a large-scale real life reenactment of that scene from The Walking Dead, where

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

at Terminus they knelt their prisoners in front of a trough and one guy knocked them out with a bat before the other guy slit their throat.

Am I completely misunderstanding Trump's quote? Because I just can't think of any other way to interpret it...

[sluissa]

Trump is pushing coal and oil. And while that's not all that great, there is a context to consider. Solar and wind are rapidly, and by some accounts already cheaper than fossil fuels. In house storage is rapidly becoming a thing that's could be commonplace in the next decade and larger infrastructure storage is being worked on.

It might be too little too late, we're already passed a critical point in CO2 emissions for the planet. Temps are rising and all that's left to do now is see how far and what we can do to brace ourselves. But pipelines can be built and coal can be dug up, but at the end of the day, whether that day be tomorrow, or 4 years from now, the market will eventually settle on the cheapest option (once these 50 year old plants finally decide it's more reasonable to shut down and give in to renewables than to refurbish or rebuild at great cost for a fuel that's only going to keep increasing in price) which is to invest in solar, wind, or whatever is next on the table, be it fusion or zero point energy time crystals or whatever.

These pipelines and coal mines and power plants are LONG term projects with huge initial investment and long payoff times. Eventually demand will dwindle so much that the pipelines and such are no longer reasonable. These current ones may get built, but we're already seeing so much push back against them, and the lowering of demand and increasing relative cost will inevitably lead to less or no more future pipelines and eventually shutting down those that do exist.

I'm rambling a bit, sorry, but TL;DR of it:

People think the fight against fossil fuels is one that must end in death of them. The real fight is to delay their expansion until they're no longer cost effective or relevant. You don't have to kill oil. You just have to keep them from ruining everything until something better comes along. Well we're there. Something better is here, oil and coal WILL be replaced given time.

[Reelya]

After listening to Trump's prayer speech this morning, I'm now more convinced than ever that Trump is a monster. Like, Dexter style, incapable of empathy or other normal human emotions, driven to kill us all just because he's bored type of monster.

WASHINGTON — President Trump turned his speech to National Prayer Breakfast into a roast, mocking his domestic opponents and promising to "be tough" with foreign leaders at an event that is normally solemn and bipartisan in tone.

Huh. And there's his speech for Black History Month, where he started talking about black people but segued into a rant about how the media hates Donald Trump, and the ongoing fixation about not winning popular vote.

There's a pattern here. Basically he doesn't have the normal wiring in that head of his, perhaps because he's always been the rich kid that always gets his way, he doesn't have the normal common sense of what's appropriate to do or say in which situation. Sociopath plus Narcissist? That's what comes to mind, he's got two overlapping personality disorders in there perhaps.

"Lack of self-awareness" is a recognized NPD trait. Trump seems to have this trait.
http://thenarcissistinyourlife.com/tag/narcissists-lack-insight/

The narcissist lacks insight–the ability to examine and understand one’s inner mental process as well as the perception of others. Narcissists are incapable of introspection and lack insight. They live from an external perspective. Their image, the persona they project to the world, how much money they have accumulated, the power they wield over others—-these are their life priorities.

Kinda sums up Trump's tone deaf speeches recently, and his tweets, he has no sense of what's approriate or how it's coming across, as a result he does in fact need to use the simplistic bluster and scapegoating, he doesn't have any other advanced oratory techniques, because these require you to be attuned to your audience and to consider the gravity of your words. Instead, Trump squanders his gains through griping about minor slights, completely oblivious to what that makes him look like.

[Neonivek]

That isn't it.

It is because if you say something with gusto... You are right... So to speak.

I know I am selling it badly but it is a style...

Basically strong arming, in your face, uncompromising.

[Reelya]

Well I edited in a relevant part at the end before I saw your post.

I still hold he's not actually capable of giving an appropriate speech because he has a personality disorder which fundamentally doesn't allow him to correct gauge what's appropriate, since he cannot emphasize. Basically it never occured to him that it was inappropriate to twist the president's traditional Black History Month speech into a "woe is Trump" sermon, nor that it was inappropriate to turn the President's breakfast prayer into a political witch-hunt. He just can't see that it's a problem when it's happening, and steer himself. And when confronted later he retreats behind a wall of anger and denial. So the "screw you" is really in the lashing out when people try and challenge him on his inappropriate behavior, but he honestly couldn't gauge by himself that it was inappropriate.

And that's also the reason he doesn't use a professional speechwriter: he doesn't see the need, because his words are YUUUUGE - and that's also part of his delusional NPD. If he was mentally well enough to realize he needs a speechwriter, he wouldn't need one as much.

The "gusto" is used to purely to attack others. When he uses the gusto about himself it comes off mostly as empty boasts and whining. But because of his mental problem, he doesn't understand that the whining is pointless and makes him look a fool. He just doesn't get that because of the psych issues.

[smjjames]

After listening to Trump's prayer speech this morning, I'm now more convinced than ever that Trump is a monster. Like, Dexter style, incapable of empathy or other normal human emotions, driven to kill us all just because he's bored type of monster.

WASHINGTON — President Trump turned his speech to National Prayer Breakfast into a roast, mocking his domestic opponents and promising to "be tough" with foreign leaders at an event that is normally solemn and bipartisan in tone.

Huh. And there's his speech for Black History Month, where he started talking about black people but segued into a rant about how the media hates Donald Trump, and the ongoing fixation about not winning popular vote.

There's a pattern here. Basically he doesn't have the normal wiring in that head of his, perhaps because he's always been the rich kid that always gets his way, he doesn't have the normal common sense of what's appropriate to do or say in which situation. Sociopath plus Narcissist? That's what comes to mind, he's got two overlapping personality disorders in there perhaps.

"Lack of self-awareness" is a recognized NPD trait. Trump seems to have this trait.
http://thenarcissistinyourlife.com/tag/narcissists-lack-insight/

The narcissist lacks insight–the ability to examine and understand one’s inner mental process as well as the perception of others. Narcissists are incapable of introspection and lack insight. They live from an external perspective. Their image, the persona they project to the world, how much money they have accumulated, the power they wield over others—-these are their life priorities.

Kinda sums up Trump's tone deaf speeches recently, and his tweets, he has no sense of what's approriate or how it's coming across, as a result he does in fact need to use the simplistic bluster and scapegoating, he doesn't have any other advanced oratory techniques, because these require you to be attuned to your audience and to consider the gravity of your words. Instead, Trump squanders his gains through griping about minor slights, completely oblivious to what that makes him look like.

Or his apparent request to pray for Arnold Schwarzenegger for the Apprentice show, while at a prayer breakfast. When I saw that, I was like 'Did something happen to him?', but nope, Arnold is totally fine and uninjured and it's just Trump being egosistical. Just goes to show how unusual his behavior is.

Also, check out Arnolds response to Trump. He's obviously joking because he legally can't (not born in the US or otherwise on US soil), but it's still a nice retort.

[Sheb]

Am I completely misunderstanding Trump's quote? Because I just can't think of any other way to interpret it...

Really? It seems fairly clear - and reasonable - to me. Mexico has a big problem with violence from the cartels (RIP in peace all those 'I'm going to fight the cartels' politicians who have been found with their head missing). Cartels who are, in some places, packing serious amounts of firepower. Trump is saying that if that's an issue, America is willing to help.

It's probably said more to politically embarrass the Mexican president more than anything else, but no, I don't think he was going for a re-enactment of TWD.

Didn't sound like "We're willing to help if you want.", more like a threat "Deal with that shit, or we'll send troops in".