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[smjjames]

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/philippines-president-rodrigo-duterte-says-united-states-is-threatening-stability-in-asia/news-story/f87fe1e052eb82a34770a0698b8b19f8

Duterte is calling on Trump to reign it in a bit. When Duterte is the Voice of Reason you know we're headed to hell in a handbasket.

Did you read the article? He's not talking about Trumps actions specifically, but rather the Pentagon building stuff that they greenlighted. Him complaining about US troops and bases in the Philippines is nothing new. It doesn't say when it was greenlighted, but it's possible that it was greenlighted while Obama was still President.

BTW Trump just lauched his first military action, there's one US soldier dead and women and children are reported as being casualties in the attack

http://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/us-elite-forces-in-deadly-raid-on-alqaeda-in-yemen/news-story/3ab5d3b1448c6a9bef7f3d29c28df8b6

Basically Trump ditched the air superiority doctrine and send foot sloggers in.

Nobody's saying that Trump is the one who did the military action. I don't know whether that one was weeks in planning, but yeah, it's Trump's responsibility now, regardless if it was greenlighted in Obamas waning days or not.

[Sergarr]

Unless you believe that raids like that can be planned within just a week, participation of Trump in it was most likely reserved to OK'ing it after all the preparations, done under the previous Obama administration, were already complete.

[Reelya]

It was botched however, American troops dead, civilians killed. The whole thing was ballsed up.

And it didn't hit a stronghold, it hit some houses of tribal leaders who have associations with Al Qaeda. For example, an orphan was living there with her uncle because she was the daughter of a man killed by a US drone attack. Her father, who was a high-ranking rebel, he's already dead now. So they knew who these people were because of family ties, but it most likely was not any sort of military target, just a known location where some people lived who had family connections to the previously-killed rebels.

I wouldn't be surprised if Trump pressured them to put this together in a hurry, because he wanted the equivalent of Obama's raid on Osama bin Laden, and he wants it now, dammit!

[Strife26]

Unless you believe that raids like that can be planned within just a week, participation of Trump in it was most likely reserved to OK'ing it after all the preparations, done under the previous Obama administration, were already complete.

Everyone knows that it's just a matter of waiting for everyone in the lobby to hit A.

[smjjames]

Then again..... It says that the apache helicopter struck three things that it's not supposed to strike.

If Trump actually ordered them to hit medical facilities, schools, etc....

editwhiletyping: Nix my earlier comments, it WAS ordered by Trump, the mission was anyway, http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/29/politics/us-servicemember-killed-in-raid-on-al-qaeda-in-yemen/index.html and that article makes it sound like it's a real disaster of an operation.

Unless you believe that raids like that can be planned within just a week, participation of Trump in it was most likely reserved to OK'ing it after all the preparations, done under the previous Obama administration, were already complete.

See above text in this post.

Also, there are discrepancies between the two articles, the CNN one says there were no civillian casualties (so the military claims_, while the Australia one implies there were civillian casualities.

It was botched however, American troops dead, civilians killed. The whole thing was ballsed up.

I wouldn't be surprised if Trump pressured them to put this together in a hurry, because he wanted the equivalent of Obama's raid on Osama bin Laden, and he wants it now, dammit!

given that a craft had to make a hard landing, the whole thing sounds pretty close to the whole Blackhawk debacle.

edit: Reading the Australia article again, the only 'civillians' mentioned are the women and children that are related to known terrorists........

.....

He's killing the terrorists families like he said!!

and apparently the US military doesn't consider them civillians, but um, the school, hospital, and mosque...

[MetalSlimeHunt]

There is little doubt that Trump conspicuously ignores the line between military and civilian targets when it comes to terrorism, this "bomb the hospital if terrorists hide in the basement" line has been common amongst the right ever since Bush. If anything it's worse now.

[Wolfhunter107]

@smjjames

It says that Trump authorized it, not that he ordered it, which still means that the raid was in the works before the inauguration. Stuff like this doesnt get planned and executed in eight days. Ialso don't see anything to indicate that the raid failed. Losing a guy and an Osprey is bad, but they still got the guys they went in to kill.

[Starver]

He'll make more terrorists for each of the the non-terrorists (just related?  Eventually everyone's related) that he kills. And if he loses a US soldier and/or other asset each and every time, then it makes me wonder if this is how he's going to ensure that there are fewer US veterans being ignored by the state...  :/

[Reelya]

It was an elite forces raid. Elite forces are also on standy for emergency actions with little warning. Not all commando actions take months of planning.

For example, look at Operation Entebbe orchestrated by the Israeli's to rescue victims of a plane hijacking. It occured 1 week after the hijacking, and was MUCH more involved and risky than what the US forces just did. They had to fly to Uganda, while also working out how to get home as they lacked in-air refueling. They landed at a disused Ugandan airbase, then drove black Mercedes out of it, disguised as official Ugandan vehicles, managed to rescue almost all the hostages, kill all the hijackers, and they threw in blowing up the Ugandan airforce while they were at it, then went home. They had the same number of casualties as Trumps raid.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Entebbe

That was some planning! This current raid was less organized than that, and didn't achieve as many objectives, and was also not responding to changes in events. There's no way this was a detailed planned mission.

[muldrake]

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/philippines-president-rodrigo-duterte-says-united-states-is-threatening-stability-in-asia/news-story/f87fe1e052eb82a34770a0698b8b19f8

Duterte is saying there's been a sudden ramping up of US military presence in his country. Something to do with the new administration or just coincidence?

You have real problems when it's Duterte saying you're out of your mind.

@smjjames

It says that Trump authorized it, not that he ordered it, which still means that the raid was in the works before the inauguration. Stuff like this doesnt get planned and executed in eight days. Ialso don't see anything to indicate that the raid failed. Losing a guy and an Osprey is bad, but they still got the guys they went in to kill.

Note, as much as I detest Trump, this kind of story always happens in Presidential transitions.  The guy who just came in and didn't interrupt something gets blamed for something that was literally done by the previous President.

[Wolfhunter107]

.

It was an elite forces raid. Elite forces are also on standy for emergency actions with little warning. Not all commando actions take months of planning.

And this wasn't an emergency action

That was some planning! This current raid was less organized than that, and didn't achieve as many objectives, and was also not responding to changes in events. There's no way this was a detailed planned mission.

I'd like to see your source for those claims.

[Starver]

What he needs is an Operation Paul Bunyon.

Seriously, that needs a read. (But not by Trump.  Please!  Don't want to give him the wrong idea!)

[Reelya]

I'd like to see your source for those claims.

The reports are not indicating there was any military objective at the location. If there was one hit, Trump would be highlighting that fact because it would justify a dead American. Trump is talking about how bad the dead American is, but he's deliberately avoiding mentioning anything about what strategic objectives this raid actually accomplised. If not him, then they'd have him doing the "my heart bleeds" speech and a Pentagon official doing the "we struck them hard, losses were made, but it's all for the victory" speech.

Basically this event has been born frum hubris. Trump wants a an early military victory to make him popular (it's a well worn strategy that works), and he believes the hype about invincibility of US elite forces, so he figures an elite forces raid is going to look good (as in Obama vs Osama) so he's asked the military to pick a target, and someone's house where a political affiliate of a rebel group lives, well those are your typical "easy targets" because the intelligence people usually know where a number of such people live.

[Vilanat]

It was an elite forces raid. Elite forces are also on standy for emergency actions with little warning. Not all commando actions take months of planning.

For example, look at Operation Entebbe orchestrated by the Israeli's to rescue victims of a plane hijacking. It occured 1 week after the hijacking, and was MUCH more involved and risky than what the US forces just did. They had to fly to Uganda, while also working out how to get home as they lacked in-air refueling. They landed at a disused Ugandan airbase, then drove black Mercedes out of it, disguised as official Ugandan vehicles, managed to rescue almost all the hostages, kill all the hijackers, and they threw in blowing up the Ugandan airforce while they were at it, then went home. They had the same number of casualties as Trumps raid.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Entebbe

And 5 soldiers of the same unit got killed in a training exercise that was meticulously planned for a month.

Trump's blame for the relative failure of this mission is equivalent to Obama's credit for the successful ride on bin laden's mansion, as in, none.

And it wasn't the first in recent time american special forces took direct action against terrorists in Yemen, Iraq or Syria, so it can hardly point at a dramatic shift in strategy.

Guys, really, from far away across the atlantic and the med sea, trump looks like a total disaster, but the reaction to him is what's really scary. you are losing your minds. the very concept of the United States of America might very well be at risk because of this over reaction fueled by those who might not have the U.S best interests at the top of their concerns.

[smjjames]

@smjjames

It says that Trump authorized it, not that he ordered it, which still means that the raid was in the works before the inauguration. Stuff like this doesnt get planned and executed in eight days. Ialso don't see anything to indicate that the raid failed. Losing a guy and an Osprey is bad, but they still got the guys they went in to kill.

Good point then.

I'd like to see your source for those claims.

The reports are not indicating there was any military objective at the location. If there was one hit, Trump would be highlighting that fact because it would justify a dead American. Trump is talking about how bad the dead American is, but he's deliberately avoiding mentioning anything about what strategic objectives this raid actually accomplised. Basically this event has been born frum hubris. Trump wants a an early military victory to make him popular (it's a well worn strategy that works), and he believes the hype about invincibility of US elite forces, so he figures an elite forces raid is going to look good (as in Obama vs Osama) so he's asked the military to pick a target, and someone's house where a political affiliate of a rebel group lives, well those are your typical "easy targets" because the intelligence people usually know where a number of such people live.

Source that Trump is bashing the dead soldier? I haveb't seen anything on that.