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[Frumple]

Too many syllables involved for that, I'm afraid.

[Max™]

The last thread was such a failure. I mean just the worst. Sad!

This one though, we've got the biggest plans for it, the very best, I mean everyone is saying that we've got the best thread here.

[wierd]

And let me tell you, when it comes to threads, everyone says that ours is the best. It's the best thread. Much better than DPRK.

[Helgoland]

PTW.

[Reelya]

The failing old thread has been wrong about everything from the very beginning. Said Clinton would win the primaries, then the general election. FAKE THREAD!

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-trump-immigration-ban-conflict-of-interest/
This Bloomberg article is noting that Trump's immigration ban excludes nations in which his company has major business deals underway, such as Egypt.

Also, a new Executive Order has stated that America's privacy protections are to be rescinded for all foreigners.
https://news.slashdot.org/story/17/01/29/0439256/trumps-executive-order-eliminates-privacy-act-protections-for-foreigners

Executive orders for Trump stand at 8 now. So far he's averaging one per day

[PTTG??]

The next step will be the ability of the President to rescind citizenship at will.

[wierd]

People who suffer from the Dunning-Krueger syndrome like Trump need to constantly reinforce their feeling of importance.

I suspect he will make executive orders every day.

[Reelya]

I'm smarter than Dunning and Krueger.

[wierd]

I am sure the study that trump will commission on his intelligence will say "It's HUUUGE".  (Especially after it goes through the political screening process.)

[Reelya]

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/28/politics/donald-trump-immigration-detention-deportations-enforcement/
Donald Trump just massively expanded the powers of deportation

Washington (CNN)The immigration executive orders signed by President Donald Trump this week could amount to a vast expansion of authority for individual immigration officers and a dramatic increase in efforts to detain and deport undocumented immigrants.
The order lays out a series of categories of undocumented immigrants that immigration law enforcement officials should prioritize for removing from the country, a reaction to what was criticized by the right as lax enforcement of immigration law by former President Barack Obama.

But experts say the descriptions include virtually every person in the country illegally and give broad latitude to individual immigration officers to decide who should be detained for deportation.

... I remember warning you guys about this but people thought I was crazy. Immigration agents have just been given massively individual powers over undocumented immigrants, a large proportion of which are women with children. I'm willing to be that pedophiles and rapists would love to join a service which gives you unparalleled coercive power over women and their kids ... everyone's already heard about the corrupt types that gravitate to narcotics and vice divisions in the police. It's not rocket sience. corrupt officers don't join forensics or missing-persons units because there's no profit there. Massive authority over vulnerable people attracts the worst type of recruits.

~~~

The whole loss of citizenship thing for me is one of my worst fears for you guys. That way, fascism lies. And that ain't no Godwin. They're removing legal protections for non-citizens already. Then say Trump tries to abolish Jus soli, take away citizenship for existing citizens who burn the flag, or just all felons. They already strip voting rights, that's the next step. It wouldn't be hard to get the Trump-core to support something like that.

The real problem is when they strip your citizenship when you're a full citizen, or they deny babies born in USA of being Americans. Those people aren't citizens of any other place, so you can't deport them or any of that. You can deport someone who came from somewhere else, you can't force another country to accept people they have no record of. So they'd be native non-citizens. Thus they'll have to be tracked and contained inside the USA. And without Jus Soli, non-citizens will breed as non-citizens, creating a permanent underclass who lack any constitutional protections. After a while this situation would become normalized, with specific rules about how non-citizen residents can and can't be treated. But they won't get the normal rights, and "citizens" will be able to be threatened to stay in line or else join the non-citizens. It wouldn't be hard, over time, to gradually build up a situation where more and more percentages of US residents aren't classed as US Citizens.

This is completely doable people. The 14th Amendment says "all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" but that can be fought with a Supreme Court ruling that they aren't "subject to the jurisdiction thereof", in other words ruling that this doesn't apply to two non-citizens having a child because they're not subjects. Basically flag-burners could be charged with treason, that they're enemy combatants. Jus Soli doesn't apply to enemy combatants, so it could be ruled that they abrogated their birthright citizenship due to committing treason against the flag. This is all perfectly doable if you had a compliant Supreme Court.

[LoSboccacc]

I agree stripping citizenship from citizen is a bad bad move. one for which people should be in the street, for realsies. that is NOT a power a government should have.

on the other hand, this piece of your analysis on birth rights ignores the dozens countries without jus soli that somehow manage to get by. how do they do it without the apocalypse you're describing?

[Reelya]

I agree stripping citizenship from citizen is a bad bad move. one for which people should be in the street, for realsies. that is NOT a power a government should have.

on the other hand, this piece of your analysis on birth rights ignores the dozens countries without jus soli that somehow manage to get by. how do they do it without the apocalypse you're describing?

Well Australia is one of those, and we have ... huge international outrage because there are mothers with babies in barbed-wire concentration camps. It's a news thing.

so we solve the problem of stateless babies by building prisons for them on remote desolate islands off the coast. Problem well solved, right? Some kids got under the radar and now the government wanted to kick them out, but they're stateless so it didn't happen:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/immigration/citizenship-changes-put-australianborn-kids-at-risk/news-story/0af5c67917f6d667920a7d29c5e77ac5

But read the articles, because we don't have Jus Soli Australia does in fact have an underclass of stateless people at risk of deportation or arbitrary arrest at any time.

[muldrake]

I am sure the study that trump will commission on his intelligence will say "It's HUUUGE".  (Especially after it goes through the political screening process.)

At some point, expect an executive order revoking reality entirely.

[muldrake]

I agree stripping citizenship from citizen is a bad bad move. one for which people should be in the street, for realsies. that is NOT a power a government should have.

on the other hand, this piece of your analysis on birth rights ignores the dozens countries without jus soli that somehow manage to get by. how do they do it without the apocalypse you're describing?

Well Australia is one of those, and we have ... huge international outrage because there are mothers with babies in barbed-wire concentration camps. It's a news thing.

so we solve the problem of stateless babies by building prisons for them on remote desolate islands off the coast. Problem well solved, right?

I thank Australia for existing so no matter what Trump does, we won't be the worst country in the world for refugee rights.

[Reelya]

Well I found a 2015 article where the Australian government is threatening to round up people who's parents were not born here.

So the "stateles people face arbitrary arrest at any time, since there's no Jus Soli" it's a real thing. And that's in a nation which is actually in the upper percentiles for human rights and freedoms, in a global sense. Think about how that would feel, you were born in Australia but the government is threatening to round you up and put you in a detention camp for no specific reason. And yes, if two of these people breed, they breed a stateless baby who is also a non-person.

So we have these people here who have no nationality because of lack of Jus Soli, we tolerate their existence, but they have exactly zero legal rights. So, there's precedent for how the thing I'm warning about would play out. That situation could be replicated, and if you deliberately created a large number of people with this grey-area of legal rights, then you could in fact create a two-tier Republic similar to ancient Athens.