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[sluissa]

One minor thing I noticed about the "Made in America" thing... It's apparently an event. The listed companies are "attendees" and the "product" listed next to them are what they're bringing to the event. So... as poorly worded and thought out as it appears to be... maybe it's not all bullshit. The aircraft company could simply be bringing model aircraft to the event instead of full sized aircraft. Maybe Chik-fil-a is just catering the event, thus bringing "food".

I still stand by my opinion as "Caterpillar" as a "made in america" company as complete bullshit though.

[Egan_BW]

I still stand by my opinion as "Caterpillar" as a "made in america" company as complete bullshit though.

Complete bullshit and also technically true, the best kind of true.

[smjjames]

One minor thing I noticed about the "Made in America" thing... It's apparently an event. The listed companies are "attendees" and the "product" listed next to them are what they're bringing to the event. So... as poorly worded and thought out as it appears to be... maybe it's not all bullshit. The aircraft company could simply be bringing model aircraft to the event instead of full sized aircraft. Maybe Chik-fil-a is just catering the event, thus bringing "food".

In this bunch of pictures, there is a model of a Sikorsky helicopter*, so, it certainly makes a heck of a lot more sense in that context.

*That it's the same model as one Trump owns, has to be in no way a coincidence. Plus I think Marine One is also made by the same company.

edit: Actually, that may just be a blurb that the photographer put in there rather than Trump's actual words.

[misko27]

It's not truly dead until the Senate votes against it. COME ON REPUBLICANS. I demand a vote you sons of bitches, you can't just delay a vote you won't win. They delayed it the first time, now McCain is on an operating table while more senators defect. If they just delay it again (or god forbid table it), it will be so anti-climactic I will throw a fit in frustration. Why are they so afraid of a vote? That it will show the world that they don't know what they're doing on healthcare? You'd think that after months of grim headlines, damning budget estimates, universal criticism from think tanks and lobbyists on the left and right, and the constant general drumbeat of bad news that by now they'd be well past the point of caring that they look ridiculous.

I suppose the next step they might do is a straight up repeal (which is closer to what the House did), but that could be even harder because McConnell reportedly doesn't want to do it without a replacement plan available, and some of the more moderate Republicans are of the same or similar mindset.

Supposedly, McConnell is interested in trying to cut a deal with Democrats if repeal fails (leading to the hilarious headlines where McConnell warns the GOP about "possible compromise") but even if they do it's not going to be easy to come to a deal, although at least it might be possible unlike repeal, and Democrats will hold significantly more clout in negotiations than they do now (which is approximately zilch).

[Starver]

One minor thing I noticed about the "Made in America" thing... It's apparently an event. The listed companies are "attendees" and the "product" listed next to them are what they're bringing to the event. So... as poorly worded and thought out as it appears to be... maybe it's not all bullshit. The aircraft company could simply be bringing model aircraft to the event instead of full sized aircraft. Maybe Chik-fil-a is just catering the event, thus bringing "food".

I still stand by my opinion as "Caterpillar" as a "made in america" company as complete bullshit though.

So are Caterpillar bringing a big, brightly coloured thing that seems intent on shoving huge quantities of muck around and damaging the environment?  Or is that provision already in place due to Trump being present...

[SalmonGod]

In an article on single-payer healthcare (or maybe it was in a discussion in this thread), I saw that insurance companies still made up like 20% of Australia's entire healthcare market, so, it's not like people won't ever have a choice. Seems like the whole 'having a choice' is one of the bigger hangups that conservatives have over single-payer healthcare.

It costing a whole lot is a legit and fair point, especially with the debt, but currently we spend WAY more on healthcare than the next highest spending country.

The having a choice thing is about being able to choose not to pay into the healthcare system.  Not being able to choose private insurance.  In other words, your taxes shouldn't be spent on a healthcare system if that's not what you want.  It's your typical libertarian thing about forcing one person to pay for another person's problems being a form of oppression, and not thinking about the natural conclusions of organizing around this principle.  Very similar to childless people complaining about how their taxes go to funding schools, because it doesn't directly benefit them.

[smjjames]

@misko: Yeah, exactly. It's like 'Just vote on it and move on! If it fails, it fails. This thing is going in circles and going nowhere fast'

[sluissa]

They know this plan won't work. They know if it fails they'll have to come up with something else and they don't have any better ideas. So might as well try to delay this for 2-4 years in the hopes that something will happen and people won't notice that they never did anything with it. A failure is a failure. A delay can be spun any number of ways.

[smjjames]

Would a 2 year delay be enough though? Obamacare took well over a year to craft, and that was with just primarily the Democrats doing it. I'd imagine a truly bipartisan one would take even longer, and they don't even have President Trump driving the conversation on it like Obama did.

[SalmonGod]

They know this plan won't work. They know if it fails they'll have to come up with something else and they don't have any better ideas. So might as well try to delay this for 2-4 years in the hopes that something will happen and people won't notice that they never did anything with it. A failure is a failure. A delay can be spun any number of ways.

It will be blamed on Democrats either way, and their base will buy it.

[sluissa]

They don't NEED to come up with anything if it just slowly fades from public consciousness. If they just stop talking about health care, Trump will inevitably do something that will draw everyone's attention and it'll be forgotten.

That's not to say that doing nothing is appropriate. Not to say that lots of people won't be screwed over by even a "nothing" from them, since enough of the ACA has been chipped away already that people are already screwed and more will be every day.

[smjjames]

Won't prevent the Dems from hammering them over it. I suppose they can always push it further back if they have to, and the insurance companies definetly won't like it since they don't like the uncertianity.

[smjjames]

They know this plan won't work. They know if it fails they'll have to come up with something else and they don't have any better ideas. So might as well try to delay this for 2-4 years in the hopes that something will happen and people won't notice that they never did anything with it. A failure is a failure. A delay can be spun any number of ways.

It will be blamed on Democrats either way, and their base will buy it.

Yes, and Democrats were able to blame the 2008 recession on Bush.

You forget the most simple of things. People blame the President's party. Pure and simple. If it happens while X is in office, X's party will be blamed, even if it was set in motion prior.

Heh, by that logic, Trump should have a second term so that the Republicans will suffer under it. *manaiacal laughter*

Nah, at the rate the investigation is going, he won't even get to a second term.

[Frumple]

It will be blamed on Democrats either way, and their base will buy it.

Yes, and Democrats were able to blame the 2008 recession on Bush.

You forget the most simple of things. People blame the President's party. Pure and simple. If it happens while X is in office, X's party will be blamed, even if it was set in motion prior.

The most succinct assessment of it I've noticed is mostly that the swing voters -- i.e. basically the only people who goddamn matter in an election, in practice -- associate stuff that happens during a president's term with the president's party. If shit is going poorly for them, shit very likely to go poorly for the incumbent, regardless of who's actually to blame.

... which basically means whether the GOP base buys it or not means sod all. The base isn't going to be what wins things for 'em. It's necessary, but not sufficient -- and they've be signalling real damn hard the GOP leadership could literally shit on them and they'd still vote R.

[RedKing]

Unleash a thousand Hamilton memes. The Senate healthcare bill is dead, as is any talk of a straight ACA repeal.

Trump threw a short temper tantrum of a presser afterwards, and is moving on to other things. Like failing to renegotiate NAFTA, botching an attempted reversal of Roe V. Wade, or possibly building a one-mile stretch of chicken wire fence on the Rio Grande, slapping a gold Trump sign on it, and declaring Mission Accomplished.

In hindsight, I'm beginning to think Trump is a good thing for America, because he's going to be the death of the Republican Party.