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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 4260835 times)

EnigmaticHat

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Comey testifies in front of Congress
« Reply #8310 on: June 21, 2017, 03:59:59 pm »

I've always found most government conspiracy theories ridiculous because either you have too many people in the know to keep it a perfect secret, or you have so few people in the know you have no authority.  Like OK you're in the Illuminati and you run the world.  Well... who would listen to you giving orders?  No one knows about you...

For me the most plausible conspiracy theories are the ones where some of it has slipped but everyone is mostly OK with it, or at least OK enough not to freak out.  Like the Snowden leak or the Panama Papers.  We all pretty much could guess something like that was happening, and there'd been plenty of scattered journalism strongly hinting at it, but the whole thing hadn't quite been "a story" yet.  Or like the idea that Free Masons are a secret society running everything, I don't buy that, but if you want to tell me they're a rich person's club where presidents go to eat caviar and joke about their body counts, I'd buy that.  I think actual deep states function a lot like that too, you have the military leadership or whatever running things and everyone kind of knows but there hasn't been a thorough expose yet.  Keeping a complete secret is just too hard, someone's going to get drunk and blab to their wife.  The best conspiracies are the ones where even if a journalist runs a story on it nothing will happen.

Edit: I saw a really interesting TV special on Area 51 as a teen.  Usually those are bullshit speculation "no one has ever asked if this true" types but this one actually had a lot of evidence from firsthand sources and put forth a strong hypothesis.  Which is that the testing facilities out in Arizona and such are all experimental aircraft testing facilities.  That much is pretty much an open secret.  But they went into detail talking about how this one town had all seen low flying aircraft and lights and it really was a lot of people to be bullshitting.  Then they had interviews from someone who had worked on an experimental spy aircraft that was supposed to move in all directions and be silent.  I guess the idea was it could float up to people's windows and take pictures or something.  IIRC they even had some video of the craft in question, it was almost dalek shaped and clearly far too large to be an effective spy plane, in hindsight its probably a precursor to smaller modern drones.  The show also went on to talk about how a lot of the more plausible UFO citings were probably of an early high altitude spy plane developed in those same facilities during the cold war.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2017, 04:06:31 pm by EnigmaticHat »
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Lord Shonus

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Comey testifies in front of Congress
« Reply #8311 on: June 21, 2017, 04:18:13 pm »

That last part isn't even a theory. It's proven fact.
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misko27

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Comey testifies in front of Congress
« Reply #8312 on: June 21, 2017, 04:42:38 pm »

Of course that doesn't mean that when secrets are revealed that the reveal isn't shocking; destabilizing, even. Consider On the Cult of Personality and Its Consequences, a speech delivered by Khrushchev on the Stalin era that destabilized parts of the USSR (riots in Georgia, requiring a military crackdown), helping to cause the Sino-Soviet split, and devastated the western organized left when it was leaked to the NY Times via Israel.
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Frumple

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Comey testifies in front of Congress
« Reply #8313 on: June 21, 2017, 04:45:59 pm »

They did get the vote out. The problem is that, with all the publicity and whatnot for this special election, so did the Republicans.
And even with that, turned a 20 something point red area into a (sub-?)5 if not purple than close enough it barely matters one.

People (hell, myself included, I didn't pick up on it until a day or three ago) seem to like to forget special elections generally only happen in extremely safe districts. Winning would have been a coup, but getting that close isn't something to downplay, either.
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Comey testifies in front of Congress
« Reply #8314 on: June 21, 2017, 04:46:36 pm »

Of course that doesn't mean that when secrets are revealed that the reveal isn't shocking; destabilizing, even. Consider On the Cult of Personality and Its Consequences, a speech delivered by Khrushchev on the Stalin era that destabilized parts of the USSR (riots in Georgia, requiring a military crackdown), helping to cause the Sino-Soviet split, and devastated the western organized left when it was leaked to the NY Times via Israel.
That's what I'm saying tho.  Most conspiracy theories imply a reality a dozen steps removed from our own.  Its a lot more plausible to believe in conspiracies and secrets that are just one or two steps removed from our current knowledge.
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sluissa

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Comey testifies in front of Congress
« Reply #8315 on: June 22, 2017, 01:20:17 am »

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EnigmaticHat

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Comey testifies in front of Congress
« Reply #8316 on: June 22, 2017, 01:39:01 am »

Maybe this is a stupid question but is a -294% tax rate the same thing as a 0% tax rate?
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Neonivek

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Comey testifies in front of Congress
« Reply #8317 on: June 22, 2017, 02:45:39 am »

I think this happens to every movement/political party/belief system, and it happens in a cycle.

They get popular or get attention, people who don't actually believe in what the movement is about join up to justify or push their own agenda. Those people end up being what the public associates the group with, and it goes downhill. It happens to good organizations with real positive goals or ideals, and it sucks.

Yep even the conservatives/Republicans have it.
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Helgoland

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Comey testifies in front of Congress
« Reply #8318 on: June 22, 2017, 05:36:38 am »

Maybe this is a stupid question but is a -294% tax rate the same thing as a 0% tax rate?
Naah, it should be a massive subsidy. I think some guy floated a negative tax on small incomes as a way of reworking welfare a while back - that doesn't do much for folks without a job, though.
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Re: AmeriPol thread: Comey testifies in front of Congress
« Reply #8319 on: June 22, 2017, 05:41:20 am »

Maybe this is a stupid question but is a -294% tax rate the same thing as a 0% tax rate?
Naah, it should be a massive subsidy. I think some guy floated a negative tax on small incomes as a way of reworking welfare a while back - that doesn't do much for folks without a job, though.

It's a thing in the US: the Earned Income Tax Credit. Basically it doesn't help the jobless, but it also doesn't act as an incentive not to work.
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Frumple

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Comey testifies in front of Congress
« Reply #8320 on: June 22, 2017, 06:03:54 am »

Though mind, it could help jobless if folks felt like changing that bit. Don't have to be above the cutoff point for tax filing to file anyway. Actually tends to be a pretty good idea, since if you're that low it's fairly likely you'll be able to mitigate some of whatever taxes or related stuff you did run into over the course of the year.
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RedKing

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Comey testifies in front of Congress
« Reply #8321 on: June 22, 2017, 09:45:46 am »

Meanwhile, the notion of "YOUR tax dollars are going to subsidy people who don't even WORK" would drive the Republican fundraising machine for decades.

If there's one thing we've learned about GOP values, it's that the unemployed deserve to starve to death. While the pols look on and wring their hands helplessly and blame immigrants and "welfare queens" (if they're unemployed poor whites), or dance on their graves and crack open a Bud Light (if they're non-white/gay/non-Christian/Democrat/educated).
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Lord Shonus

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Comey testifies in front of Congress
« Reply #8322 on: June 22, 2017, 10:19:50 am »

Maybe this is a stupid question but is a -294% tax rate the same thing as a 0% tax rate?

No, it means you get 294% more back from the government than you paid in taxes. Such things are not uncommon at the low end of the income scale, but much rarer at the higher end.
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Frumple

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Comey testifies in front of Congress
« Reply #8323 on: June 22, 2017, 10:24:17 am »

... huh. Apparently the senate's released their version of the healthcare travesty? Tentative reactions I'm noticing seem to be suggesting it's... largely what the house had. Which is somewhat concerning, bleh.
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Neonivek

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Comey testifies in front of Congress
« Reply #8324 on: June 22, 2017, 10:25:51 am »

... huh. Apparently the senate's released their version of the healthcare travesty? Tentative reactions I'm noticing seem to be suggesting it's... largely what the house had. Which is somewhat concerning, bleh.

And the discussion on it will last only 20 hours! NO DEBATING just pass it!
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