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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 4426892 times)

smjjames

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump fires FBI Dir. Comey, sheneinighans abound
« Reply #6525 on: May 19, 2017, 09:22:15 am »

Quote
Proposed reforms of Swedish rape laws would introduce a test of whether the unequal power relations between the parties might void the sincerely expressed consent of one party. In this case, presumably, the politically active Ardin, with experience fielding gender equity complaints as a gender equity officer at Uppsala University, had her will suborned by Assange’s celebrity. The prosecutor coming as she does from a prosecution “Development Unit” could achieve this broadening of the law during Assange’s trial so he can be convicted of a crime that didn’t exist at the time he allegedly committed it.

Basically, after the event of Assange they tried to retroactively make it a crime to have consensual sex with someone of less social standing than yourself, basically saying "unequal power relations" make consent moot, and that lines up with their assertion that the alpha-male dominance of Assange made the women unable to properly consent.
Fuck's sake, did they even consider the social ramifications of this kind of law? That would make relationships and marriage across social lines invalid, de facto enforcing a classist society.

Waitwhat? That makes absolutely no sense.

Also, not surprised at politicians not considering the ramifications (social or otherwise) of some law.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 09:24:12 am by smjjames »
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Sheb

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump fires FBI Dir. Comey, sheneinighans abound
« Reply #6526 on: May 19, 2017, 10:05:01 am »

1) Sorry, didn't realize the EU should have dropped its extradition treaty. Of course the EU is badly complicit. Also, Assange had been moving freely in Europe before the Swedish thing.

2) It should be noted that Reelya's link is something written by Assange's attorney and doesn't provide source. I'm really sceptic about those law change.

3) I'm sorry but no. Justice should not be bent without due process. If this mean dragging your feet for a few years until you drop the charge according to procedure not to create a precedent, so be it.
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Reelya

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump fires FBI Dir. Comey, sheneinighans abound
« Reply #6527 on: May 19, 2017, 10:23:58 am »

Here's a feminist article critiquing Sweden's law reforms, it was the article I was looking for originally:
http://sunnysinghonline.blogspot.com.au/2010/12/swedens-rape-law-infantilise-women.html

In this one she cites the same info, someone questions it in the comments, but the OP mentions that the same information was available from Swedish new sources avaliable in English, and she puts a name to the person pushing those laws: Mariane Ny. I haven't been able to find those specific news articles yet, but I guess this woman could by lying too ... :P

EDIT: tracking down other references:
https://web.archive.org/web/20101204033654/http://www.aolnews.com/world/article/sex-by-surprise-at-heart-of-julian-assange-criminal-probe/19741444
Dana Kennedy, mainstream US journalist, making the same claims about Sweden's law reforms at the time:
Quote
In fact, the current prosecutor, Marianne Ny, who re-opened the case against Assange, has been active in the proposed reforms of Swedish rape laws that would, if passed, involve an investigation of whether an imbalance in power between two people could void one person's insistence that the sex was consensual.

EDIT: More relevant detail is available here (sydney morning herald, about as mainstream a paper as you can get in Australia, equivalent of the nytmes basically):
http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/the-truth-lies-trapped-in-a-web-of-intrigue-20101223-196mv.html

this one is pro-assange, but it gives an interesting take into the politics in Sweden, and the people who've made a name from this and related cases:
https://justice4assange.com/Gender-politics.html
It's best to read this after digesting all the other stuff. Marianne Ny is at the center of all this, along with a male politician Claes Borgström who hitched his wagon onto the radfem thing in Sweden. Ny and Borgström are basically closely allied, both involved in the radical legislation I mentioned, and both knees deep in the whole Assange thing. Originally Ardin, the main complainant against Assange talked to one of the Swedish papers (see smh article) contradicting what Ny and Borgström were saying but later she fell in line and started parroting what they were saying. These are very powerful rising political figures in Sweden, so my guess is that there was pressure on her to toe the line on this.

~~~

EDIT2: to understand why such a law would be contemplated, you need to understand Engel's concept of "false consciousness". Marxist-style rad-fems often cite the "false consciousness" of women who make choices the rad-fems don't like, and it's normally about having sex with men. So a law created by radfems in which women are said to not be in command of deciding whether they are a victim or not is in line with paternalistic radfem doctrine, in which the women's own protestations are denounced because of their "false consciousness". They have the same attitude to swedish sex workers who oppose their crackdowns as destroying their livelihoods and making the working women less safe: sex worker's voices don't count because they have "false consciousness". Marianne Ny was just trying to expand this worldview into the realm of sexual assault laws: women's opinion about whether they consented or not don't matter, because they have "false consciousness" - they can never truly consent because of the patriarchy, in the same way that Swedish radfems say that prostitutes don't truly consent. One is about money, the other is about social power. Hardcore radfems can very easily see those are completely equivalent, therefore active consent of a heterosexual woman to sex with a socially dominant male is no different to a prostitute consenting to sex for money: both are "false consciousness" of the "consenting" women, hence they should both be treated as assault and forms of gender-based violence. If you buy into the set of premises it makes complete sense and is consistent.

(False consciousness is of course, completely real. What doesn't logically flow is that whatever doctrine is promoted in opposition to the existing false consciousness is in  fact the real consciousness. It could be better or worse).
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 12:00:40 pm by Reelya »
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misko27

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump fires FBI Dir. Comey, sheneinighans abound
« Reply #6528 on: May 19, 2017, 12:51:31 pm »

Meanwhile, on a note completely unrelated to Sweden: Jeff Sessions vs. Sentencing Reform.

The parties were moving in the same direction on sentencing reform and moving away from the harsh minimums and other products of the crackdown on crime in the 90s. Progress was slow,  but both in Congress and in the states, Republicans and Democrats had an issue with which they were becoming more bipartisan, not less.

Jeff Sessions, however, in his role as Attorney General, has been moving in the opposite direction: overturning Obama-Era rules and calling for mass incarceration in order to thwart drug crime. The rules have received significant criticism from Congress and others, and in the case of the states have ignored Sessions and continued to move in the opposite direction.
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redwallzyl

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Strife26

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump fires FBI Dir. Comey, sheneinighans abound
« Reply #6530 on: May 19, 2017, 06:12:31 pm »

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/19/us/politics/trump-russia-comey.html

he just cant keep his mouth shut.

Today's cause for impeachment de jour is brought to you by NYT.

NYT: if Trump is going to implicate capabilities of a country's intelligence apparatus to Russia, we're damn sure going to tell everyone which country it is.
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smjjames

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump fires FBI Dir. Comey, sheneinighans abound
« Reply #6531 on: May 19, 2017, 07:32:06 pm »

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/19/us/politics/trump-russia-comey.html

he just cant keep his mouth shut.

Today's cause for impeachment de jour is brought to you by NYT.

NYT: if Trump is going to implicate capabilities of a country's intelligence apparatus to Russia, we're damn sure going to tell everyone which country it is.

Theres some out of context gold right in there: “I faced great pressure because of Russia. That’s taken off.”
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Playergamer

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump fires FBI Dir. Comey, sheneinighans abound
« Reply #6533 on: May 19, 2017, 08:31:08 pm »

Kushner is kicked out by Russia probe, alt-righters rejoice.

Oops.

EDIT: In protest of the removal of three of their mods, r/The_Donald has gone private. Internet drama, yay.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 08:37:05 pm by Playergamer »
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Neonivek

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump fires FBI Dir. Comey, sheneinighans abound
« Reply #6534 on: May 19, 2017, 08:39:08 pm »

The issue I have with the WikiLeaks guy is that there is a LOOOOT of ulterior motives that would be fulfilled by arresting him.

It is kind of a shame that Whistleblowers have such a terrible reputation in spite of the fact that they are typically heroes. Not that he counts as a hero necessarily, but that the same bad reputation would apply to him.
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Dorsidwarf

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump fires FBI Dir. Comey, sheneinighans abound
« Reply #6535 on: May 19, 2017, 08:44:03 pm »

My issue is that while I strongly dislike the callous politicisation of his supposedly politically neutral group, as well as Assange as a person, I am far more worried and concerned by the efforts of the various national actors in this drama to get Julian blackbagged snd dragged off to gitmo
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hector13

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump fires FBI Dir. Comey, sheneinighans abound
« Reply #6536 on: May 19, 2017, 08:45:59 pm »

What would doing that achieve, though? He's been essentially quarantined in a room in an embassy for years, and Wikileaks churns on.
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Starver

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump fires FBI Dir. Comey, sheneinighans abound
« Reply #6537 on: May 19, 2017, 08:48:41 pm »

Pour discourager les autre?
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Sergarr

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump fires FBI Dir. Comey, sheneinighans abound
« Reply #6538 on: May 19, 2017, 10:24:03 pm »

EDIT: In protest of the removal of three of their mods, r/The_Donald has gone private. Internet drama, yay.
That's great news. Now I can visit reddit links without fear of accidentally stumbling into the lair of poisonous biters.
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Reelya

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Re: AmeriPol thread: Trump fires FBI Dir. Comey, sheneinighans abound
« Reply #6539 on: May 20, 2017, 12:03:07 am »

What would doing that achieve, though? He's been essentially quarantined in a room in an embassy for years, and Wikileaks churns on.

It's mean to be a deterrent to future whistleblowers. It's almost never about punishing the actual whistleblower. You need to be seen to "get them" to scare future people into toeing the line.

EDIT: In protest of the removal of three of their mods, r/The_Donald has gone private. Internet drama, yay.
That's great news. Now I can visit reddit links without fear of accidentally stumbling into the lair of poisonous biters.

Or, it could mean spillover of that lot into other subreddits.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 12:04:44 am by Reelya »
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