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[Telgin]

It also increases the number of apathetic people who will vote based on any number of unjustifiable criteria.  "Trump sounds like a winner to me!"

Then again, that's arguably not much different from people who voluntarily turn out to vote since I'm sure the majority don't educate themselves much either.

[Neonivek]

Scientifically verifiable results are usually trustworthy (usually, they can be twisted into meaninglessness too, especially statistics), but social things are always about perspective, so the cancer information is 'probably' good, while the social data 'might be' good, but either set could also be anti-vaccer.

Yeah the most common way is to take information (statistics is rife with it) and interpret it in a bonkers way.

For example... You could take 10 men... and of these 10 people there have been 5 crimes committed in total by this group (Just pretend this sample size is sufficient). You thus can say that 50% of all men are criminals.
-(To spell it out... because I have to: You only know that 5 crimes have been commited in a group of 10... but you don't know who committed which crime AND a single person could in theory have committed all five crimes)

Lets bastardize this more! Now of these 10 men... there has also been 5 charges that have been successfully fought. You can thus say that men get away with 50% of their crimes.

The most likely way I'd expect to see a Cancer donation thing lie to me... is probably to make Cancer a LOT more horrible and common then it actually is... probably talk about how hopelessly insidious it is. Maybe say something like "These many people will get cancer!" (and fail to say what types).

[MrRoboto75]

If that were implemented right now, it would just be an excuse to round up and jail all poor people that can't afford voter ID, next elections.

Judge: "What do you have to say in your defense?"
Defendant: "I couldn't afford voter ID, or transportation costs to the voting booth"
Judge "You criminal scum! That's 40 years in a Texas prison for you!"

And once in jail, they can't vote!

[martinuzz]

Also, Belgium.

Mandatory voting does not guarantee smooth government

[NullForceOmega]

Yeah, that's the most likely reality of mandatory voting.  The political state of this nation is pretty fukt.  And unless there was a nationally mandated vacation day you could easily be unable to vote due to work.  Far too many problems for the current system to deal with.

[Ricky]

Logistics.  350~ million US citizens across one of the largest nations on the planet.  Very literally almost impossible to enforce.  Also the possibility of the requisite national ID system being found unconstitutional.  Lots and lots of reasons it isn't viable currently.

Don't act like we arent already tracking all 350+ million people in america through social security, surveillance, etc.
Logistically, the infrastructure is already set up for voters to vote, they just dont.
It is hard to enforce, yes.

Those are all reasons why it would be difficult to do, but not a reason why it would harm the election system

If that were implemented right now, it would just be an excuse to round up and jail all poor people that can't afford voter ID, next elections.

Judge: "What do you have to say in your defense?"
Defendant: "I couldn't afford voter ID, or transportation costs to the voting booth"
Judge "You criminal scum! That's 40 years in a Texas prison for you!"

or

Judge "What's your defense"
Defendant: "I'm blind and have no legs, and special transportation funding died along with Obamacare"
Judge "Off with their heads!"

That's a distant hyperbole of situations that can probably never arise.
it doesnt currently cost anything to register and vote, so we arent going to be imprisoning the poor, illiterate, and criminal because they didnt vote.

again, it might be hard to get voters to the polls, but not impossible

It also increases the number of apathetic people who will vote based on any number of unjustifiable criteria.  "Trump sounds like a winner to me!"

Then again, that's arguably not much different from people who voluntarily turn out to vote since I'm sure the majority don't educate themselves much either.

This is a reasonable concern, but i dont see how its any different than the current system. if anything, maybe voters would give a shit and read up knowing they have to vote.

Yeah, that's the most likely reality of mandatory voting.  The political state of this nation is pretty fukt.  And unless there was a nationally mandated vacation day you could easily be unable to vote due to work.  Far too many problems for the current system to deal with.

I dont see the downside of having the second tuesday of november  being "national election day", even if there isnt mandatory voting.

[Neonivek]

Maybe the US should adopt the UK's Surveillance / Invasion of Privacy policies.

[martinuzz]

it doesnt currently cost anything to register and vote

Are you suuuure? That's not what I remember from all the discussions going on around election time. Voter ID is not free. At least not in all states (maybe even none, don't remember). Registration might be free, but you still need a non-free voted ID to be allowed to register.
Not to mention missing out on a day of work.

[NullForceOmega]

No, the infrastructure isn't set up, in some places it is even actively anti-voter.  There are so many issues with the concept of implementing mandatory voting that I cannot even begin to cover them all, the issues stated thus far are just a tiny sample of the crap you'd have to deal with.  And gods help you regarding any attempt at enforcement.

Also: Social Security is voluntary.  The census is voluntary.  Surveillance is only possible in densely populated areas and even then can't follow everyone.  Would require re-drawing voting districts leading to even more gerrymandering.

[Lord Shonus]

There are basically three classes of people that don't vote in the US.

1. People who can't vote for some reason - those unable to get to the polling place due to work or transportation, those who can't get or refuse to get an ID (in states that require such), or some other reason I can't think of for some reason.

2. People that are sitting out because they don't like any of the options, or are refusing to vote as a "protest" against the system.

3. People who don't give the slightest trace of a shit what the outcome is.

These are roughly in order of the size of the groups.

Mandatory voting would probably largely eliminate group 1, because if it becomes required than employers will have to make accommodations just like they are required by law to give you time off for jury duty.

For group 2 all it would do is cause a massive surge of write in votes. Somebody who hated Clinton, Trump, Stein, and Johnson isn't going to stop hating them just because they'll be punished for not voting, and if you're sitting out as a "protest" you are not going to abandon that to avoid a fine. Instead, they'll write in Mickey Mouse, or Donald Duck, or Beelzebub, or something like that.

For group 3 they're just going to hit buttons at random to get out of there as fast as they can. If you don't give a shit, you don't give a shit.


EDIT

it doesnt currently cost anything to register and vote

Are you suuuure? That's not what I remember from all the discussions going on around election time. Voter ID is not free. At least not in all states (maybe even none, don't remember). Registration might be free, but you still need a non-free voted ID to be allowed to register.
Not to mention missing out on a day of work.

Most states have no ID requirement whatsoever. Mandatory ID of any kind usually evokes images of the Gestapo in Americans, and they're only really used as transparent attempts at voter suppression.

[misko27]

Trumpcare LIVES. For now.

Logistics.  350~ million US citizens across one of the largest nations on the planet.  Very literally almost impossible to enforce.  Also the possibility of the requisite national ID system being found unconstitutional.  Lots and lots of reasons it isn't viable currently.

Don't act like we arent already tracking all 350+ million people in america through social security, surveillance, etc.

If it were that easy to keep track of how many people live here, why do you think the Census would be so damn hard? This would be like a census every two years instead of ten. That's freaking insane.

The US isn't the biggest country, or the most populated country, but it's definitely the most populated big country, if that makes any sense. Or, rather, the US is quite respectably empty for a country with hundreds of millions of people.

[Descan]

Could not possibly care any less MSH.  This is the government the people of the United States elected, we deserve every single horrible thing they do to us, because we should have prevented it.  I will quietly and despondently sit here in my home taking care of my children and wait for it to end, however that takes place.

This is the sentiment of someone who doesn't actually have to experience those horrible things. Or would you be so blase about it if you were the one who's protection was being repealed? "Oh, I deserve this horrible thing, because a bunch of other people voted for it!" Really?

Also, great sentiment later on. "All we need to do to fix the electoral system is have entire swathes of the population change their inclination and vote against incentives, we don't need to actually fix the incentives in the system!" Any solution that begins and ends at "We just need people to change their behaviour!" is doomed to failure from the get-go. You can't change people. You can change persons, but the mass of people will not respond to attempts to change their behaviour without modifying the incentives that go along with that behaviour.

Jesus Christ, even more bull. "LGBT are a small minority, no one notices!" Redheads are 2% of the population, trans people specifically are about 1% to the best of current knowledge as I understand it; Other queer folk bring it up to about 10-15%, give or take (it's hard to get specific numbers but that's a decent ballpark.) Are you saying that systemic violence and discrimination against redheads (which did happen) wouldn't be noticed? They're even less of the population than queer folk.

[Starver]

Also, Belgium.

Belgium took (IIRC) 541 days to re-form its government and famously kept on rolling despite all this. Even with the prospect of Walloon/Flemish split (raised by the non-elected Rattachist interests) getting their toe-hold in during the process.

Compared with a full-blown Government Shutdown of the US and mandatory furlough of various 'inessential' federal agency employees, it certainly sounds (over here, t'other side of the Noordzee) to have been far from damaging in the Belgian version. But distance can be a great ameliorator of bad news, ignoring that the US is even more distance yet we get to hear all about it anyway.

[NullForceOmega]

Nice way to strawman, Descan.  You've invented that argument whole-cloth and it has nothing to do with my position or beliefs.  I am of the opinion that the electoral college is functioning as intended and I have no problem with that, if others do they need to take action.

And you are absolutely right, I'm not the one who feels threatened by this, and I am not beholden to those who are.  Let's get this straight right now, you mean nothing to me at all, you mean nothing to the vast bulk of people in the world, and they owe you no consideration whatsoever.  I feel that it is wrong and should be rectified, but it obviously isn't happening, so I'm not going to get bent out of shape over it.

Regarding your numbers:  PROVE THEM.  I've seen everything from .02% to 20%, they all smell like BS and I'm not going to trust any of them.  If you can direct me to a figure that has been supported by multiple independent groups I'd give you the benefit of the doubt, until then take your statistics back to the compost heap.

[Descan]

nah i wrote that shit before i read the rest of your posts, there's no actual point in talking to you.