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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 4432114 times)

Strongpoint

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #53970 on: November 08, 2024, 02:07:47 am »

Quote
There needs to be acceptance and a place for the straight white guys on the left. A lot of us didn't do a thing wrong and are getting screwed by the people with money pretty bad. A lot of people said we can be allies and that's true but I'm not happy being told I'm the problem. It kinda sucks. I'm not trying to hurt anyone. I learned GLBT people are fine and so are other minorities. I wasn't raised to think that but I learned.

Ally in intolerant political movements means "one who agrees with all our opinions, loyal to us but will never will be one of us and will always be treated with suspicion."
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MaxTheFox

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #53971 on: November 08, 2024, 06:08:44 am »

Harris could have won handily if she made a few concessions to the left wing. Not all, not most. Even one or two somewhat daring reforms would have probably helped secure otherwise non-voters and might even have swung over a few centrists. But what do you expect from the party whose totem animal is a donkey.

*Bursts in laughter*

To win elections you need to fight for the (moderate) electorate of the other side not do something that they strongly oppose to attract few votes of "against both" radical marginals.
Anyone who was gonna vote for Trump was locked in on him. You're not gonna turn more than a few Trump voters away from him while Trump is still alive. So many people didn't vote because they felt both sides sucked and would not improve their lives.

This is very blatantly not true. Harris didn't win because of low turnout - the numbers aren't quite as high as 2020, but they're still higher than every other Presidential election in this century. Once all the outstanding ballots (which are not enough to change the results) are counted, we'll be pretty close to the same total.

The problem was that a lot of the people who voted for Biden last time switched to Trump, not that they didn't vote at all.
They switched because another spineless moderate was not what they wanted. Trump promised something other than the status quo.

Quote
There needs to be acceptance and a place for the straight white guys on the left. A lot of us didn't do a thing wrong and are getting screwed by the people with money pretty bad. A lot of people said we can be allies and that's true but I'm not happy being told I'm the problem. It kinda sucks. I'm not trying to hurt anyone. I learned GLBT people are fine and so are other minorities. I wasn't raised to think that but I learned.

Ally in intolerant political movements means "one who agrees with all our opinions, loyal to us but will never will be one of us and will always be treated with suspicion."
Ah yes the "no you're intolerant" canard.

Other than this I feel RPL has a point... there are certain pundits on the left who blanket blame people and I don't support that obviously.
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Great Order

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #53972 on: November 08, 2024, 06:38:40 am »

ratchet effect

Is this what you mean? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratchet_effect    I'm not sure I understand you.
Reactionaries move right, Dems slow that movement without going left.
More specifically, the Reps serve to move further right, the Dems serve to stop it but never go back to the status quo ante... politica, I guess, while simultaneously acting to prevent anyone else from doing that by making it so that if you tried, you'd instead split the vote and just get the Reps in again.
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pisskop

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #53973 on: November 08, 2024, 06:51:35 am »

Listening to podcasters shift all the blame onto Biden and saying he fucked his legacy by losing Kamala the election.

Pretty disappointed with that knee jerk synopsis.  Cardboard Cutout Kamala failed
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wobbly

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #53974 on: November 08, 2024, 07:23:53 am »

Americans - "Biden is too senile, let's vote for the old man who masturbates his microphone while rambling about people eating cats"
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Flying Dice

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #53975 on: November 08, 2024, 08:31:34 am »

Quote
There needs to be acceptance and a place for the straight white guys on the left. A lot of us didn't do a thing wrong and are getting screwed by the people with money pretty bad. A lot of people said we can be allies and that's true but I'm not happy being told I'm the problem. It kinda sucks. I'm not trying to hurt anyone. I learned GLBT people are fine and so are other minorities. I wasn't raised to think that but I learned.

Ally in intolerant political movements means "one who agrees with all our opinions, loyal to us but will never will be one of us and will always be treated with suspicion."
Ah yes the "no you're intolerant" canard.

Other than this I feel RPL has a point... there are certain pundits on the left who blanket blame people and I don't support that obviously.
It's not a matter of intolerance, it's understanding that when people say "We don't like you or trust you but do as we say," and they mean it, they're never going to care about your own interests. Most of the people who talk about things in this framework make a lot of noise about intersectionality, but when it comes down to action they pretty much invariably only work towards improving things for themselves. There's nothing wrong with that, it's human, but don't expect anyone else to spend all of their time and energy helping someone else make things better for their own group. Granted there are plenty of actual misandrists, racists, and other bigots scattered around, but mostly it's just plain self-interest dressed up to sound appealing to milquetoast self-hating white liberals.

It's precisely why I only advocate on the basis of economic class -- something which benefits my economic class benefits >95% of humanity, it's the closest to a holistic approach that we have. That was the first type of collective action that the American rich targeted in the late 1700s and early 1800s when they broke up the early coalition rebellions where slaves, indentures, and poor freemen worked together for change without much regard for racial differences.

ratchet effect

Is this what you mean? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratchet_effect    I'm not sure I understand you.
Reactionaries move right, Dems slow that movement without going left.
More specifically, the Reps serve to move further right, the Dems serve to stop it but never go back to the status quo ante... politica, I guess, while simultaneously acting to prevent anyone else from doing that by making it so that if you tried, you'd instead split the vote and just get the Reps in again.
Bingo. This is the core of the issue with FPTP SMD elections, it's categorically impossible to effectively rebel against party bosses once the system has a few decades to get established.


Americans - "Biden is too senile, let's vote for the old man who masturbates his microphone while rambling about people eating cats"
It literally doesn't matter, the cultists are too deluded for rational thought to matter. Remember, the same people who had strokes because they thought that the Ohio state flag was an "Obama flag" are flying Trump flags all over the place.
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anewaname

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #53976 on: November 08, 2024, 10:16:21 am »

trump offered a place in his hierarchy for those who felt left behind.

trump established there would be others who were below them in that hierarchy.

trump has supporters who desire to apply coercion to establish hierarchy over others.

it will be done with passion and love...
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There is something to be said about, if the stakes are as high, maybe reconsider your certitudes. One has to be aggressively allistic to feel entitled to be able to trust. But it won't happen to me, my bit doesn't count etc etc... Just saying, after my recent experiences I couldn't trust the public if I wanted to. People got their risk assessment neurons rotten and replaced with game theory. Folks walk around like fat turkeys taunting the world to slaughter them.

McTraveller

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #53977 on: November 08, 2024, 10:32:22 am »

My TSLA is finally no longer in the red1, though.  Yay?

A friend of mine was telling me how great it is going to be that RFK is going to ban fluoridated water and HFCS. To be fair, I don't mind banning HFCS.  The funny thing though is this friend also thinks banning ICE vehicles to help the environment is oppressive.  So they pick and choose which science to follow. It's sort of baffling. I mean, I can choose how much fluoridated water and HFCS I consume, but I cannot choose to be unaffected by climate change.

1I bought at like the worst time. Well, the worst time, perhaps, until now. Luckily it was not a very large dollar amount.
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MaxTheFox

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #53978 on: November 08, 2024, 10:48:35 am »

It's precisely why I only advocate on the basis of economic class -- something which benefits my economic class benefits >95% of humanity, it's the closest to a holistic approach that we have. That was the first type of collective action that the American rich targeted in the late 1700s and early 1800s when they broke up the early coalition rebellions where slaves, indentures, and poor freemen worked together for change without much regard for racial differences.
Me either. Despite me being probably the most radical leftie currently active in this discussion (I radicalized further over the past 3 months that I was mostly gone from this forum)
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pisskop

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #53979 on: November 08, 2024, 10:54:04 am »

My TSLA is finally no longer in the red1, though.  Yay?

A friend of mine was telling me how great it is going to be that RFK is going to ban fluoridated water and HFCS. To be fair, I don't mind banning HFCS.  The funny thing though is this friend also thinks banning ICE vehicles to help the environment is oppressive.  So they pick and choose which science to follow. It's sort of baffling. I mean, I can choose how much fluoridated water and HFCS I consume, but I cannot choose to be unaffected by climate change.

1I bought at like the worst time. Well, the worst time, perhaps, until now. Luckily it was not a very large dollar amount.
My guess is that long-term, its a hold.  Musk stands to benefit from supporting Trump, though it's not like Trump is known for being the most consistent and they both like to hog the spotlight so I imagine they'll butt heads eventually again.


ppl are whispering about a DJT/X merger
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zhijinghaofromchina

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #53980 on: November 08, 2024, 11:43:45 am »

What will Trump do to Nancy Pelosi?

I had read a lot of analyses about trump’s revenge after he was elected.People here all said that Biden would survive from his revenge for his support such as ‘garbage talk’ ‘wearing MAGA hat’ and his wife’s ‘red clothes’ during the election day. It seems that Biden helped Trump a lot …

But Nancy, the old woman hated by Trump, what would he do to her, as she teared up the documents, impeached Trump and some other things that abstracted Trump’s way to the white house… I am concerned what will happen to her… The revenge would absolutely deepen the split situation.

Personally I hated Nancy too, for her trip to Taiwan few years ago, she nearly triggered a war that summer , she’s an ugly and disgusting warmonger from what she had done…

Well, maybe my pov is paranoid, I welcome your criticism.
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Maximum Spin

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #53981 on: November 08, 2024, 12:21:11 pm »

What will Trump do to Nancy Pelosi?

I had read a lot of analyses about trump’s revenge after he was elected.People here all said that Biden would survive from his revenge for his support such as ‘garbage talk’ ‘wearing MAGA hat’ and his wife’s ‘red clothes’ during the election day. It seems that Biden helped Trump a lot …

But Nancy, the old woman hated by Trump, what would he do to her, as she teared up the documents, impeached Trump and some other things that abstracted Trump’s way to the white house… I am concerned what will happen to her… The revenge would absolutely deepen the split situation.

Personally I hated Nancy too, for her trip to Taiwan few years ago, she nearly triggered a war that summer , she’s an ugly and disgusting warmonger from what she had done…

Well, maybe my pov is paranoid, I welcome your criticism.
I don't think he'll "do" anything, just as he didn't actually try to charge Hillary Clinton with any crime the last time despite his supporters chanting "lock her up"... I dislike Pelosi quite a lot, yes, she's a neocon and she uses her political power to make money for herself, but she'll no doubt stay in Congress and retire peacefully.
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pisskop

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #53982 on: November 08, 2024, 12:21:22 pm »

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/11/08/special-counsel-jack-smith-seeks-pause-in-trump-criminal-case-to-assess-unprecedented-circumstance.html

Not surprising that the charges will likely get lost in limbo now.



What will Trump do to Nancy Pelosi?

I know there's a lot of doom and gloom sentiment going around here, I dont think much.  Not officially.  Her husband was attacked with a hammer a couple years ago, some guy looking for her from what I remember.  Trump's rabid supporters are far more of a problem than he is, imo  There's talk about the vice president, Vance, stepping up as president should the fat old man die.  Its my understanding that Vance owes everything to a very rich man who basically could puppet him
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hector13

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #53983 on: November 08, 2024, 12:34:26 pm »

The DoJ apparently has a standing policy of not prosecuting sitting presidents, so yeah. I was under the impression negotiations were ongoing to halt them, though, rather than pause them.

Wishful thinking from Smith that.

In other news, James Comer intends to continue pursuing Hunter Biden, ending in this lovely tidbit:

Quote
"I think the most important thing for me, honestly, is that we hold people in the government accountable," he added.

Seems legit.
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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #53984 on: November 08, 2024, 12:37:12 pm »

It's a shame that prosecution is "stuck in limbo."  Just because a person is President, shouldn't mean they are immune from the law.

I even understand the SCOTUS principle for immunity and for official acts; the intent of that is to prevent a president from getting tried for murder when they authorize a war.  It is not to shield them from any prosecution.  I don't know enough about the law to know if it's easily abused or can only be abused by loopholes, even with the sensationalized headlines about the decision.
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