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[anewaname]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

What does "run under protest" mean in track?
8.4. 1 if an athlete makes an immediate oral protest against having been charged with a false start, a Track Referee may, if they are in any doubt, allow the athlete to compete “under protest” in order to preserve the rights of all concerned.

Trump will be running as presidential candidate, "under protest"... Fortunately this is a race where the spectators opinions matter to some degree.

[Duuvian]

https://www.techdirt.com/2023/09/05/yet-another-study-shows-no-link-at-all-between-social-media-and-teen-anxiety-and-depression/

https://www.techdirt.com/2023/09/07/yet-another-study-debunks-the-youtubes-algorithm-drives-people-to-extremism-argument/

https://www.techdirt.com/2023/09/06/marsha-blackburn-makes-it-clear-kosa-is-designed-to-silence-trans-people/

Spoiler: excuses (click to show/hide)

My computer broke temporarily from upgrading it from Windows 10 to 11 because Microsoft requires a Microsoft account (and thus internet access) to do a basic ass operating system reset now, so I had to find a workaround and also am switching to linux. Shortly after I finished that, a thunderstorm smote my router and my crappy monitor and placed both into a state of undeath. I only finished a portion of the KOSA evaluation, I'm considering whether to post what I have and if I should take out the mean words in it that I've used. I probably will take most out.

Does anyone know if KOSA is scheduled for a vote? I found a senate schedule but it only goes three days ahead. In the critique I wrote it looks like I went through to section 7, then skipped to 11 and that was it. If a vote isn't quick in the pending I can add more.

[Frumple]

It's generally more entertaining when you leave the mean words in, really. Long as it's not cussing out someone actually on this board you should be fine

[McTraveller]

If you have children, you know that social media does, in fact, contribute to some mental issues - notably the dopamine hit addiction aspect.  If kids aren't constantly stimulated they can't figure out how to function.

I can safely assume, however, that those studies are flawed in some way or another, as all such studies are.

As for KOSA, though, yeah that is trash.  There's no room in a functioning society for "we know better than you, so we're going to gatekeep information and even criminalize ideas we don't like."

[Rolan7]

If you have youtube, you know that it does, in fact, push extremist channels - for the dopamine hit addiction aspect.  If viewers aren't constantly hooked they might use a different media platform.

I can safely assume, however, that those studies are flawed in some way or another, as all such studies are.  Because I am fine dismissing the entire concept of studies when some of them disagree with me I guess

As for KOSA, though, yeah that is trash.  There's no room in a functioning society for "you engage with this rage bait, so we're going keep feeding you the most dangerous stochastic terrorism and cry free speech if anyone objects"
Okay well the last line of my parody doesn't quite work, because KOSA is trash because the "extremism" it "protects" against is the existence of queer people, not the blood-drenched ideologues promoting fear and bigotry.  If it was actually going to reduce the algorithm's lust for inciting people to murderous rage, that'd be a good thing actually!

The arguable flaw in that second link is that they studied a specific class of extreme content: the "dark" parts of Youtube full of burner accounts posting AI-art with TTS talking about flat earth and lizardpeople etc.  The kind of extremism that apparently is still profitable but not enough to be picked up by the algorithm.  Big whoop, that stuff is already ban-dodging... that's largely why the algorithm doesn't boost it, because the accounts keep getting reset.  It keeps going due to perverse grass-roots communities (largely on Facebook lol, though even there they have to be careful).

A lot of extremism is not so fringe, but I understand what that study meant by "extremism".  (the concept of studies can remain, I will allow it)

A platform has no responsibility to platform someone saying "queer people are groomers and groomers should be die".  But we're sooooo beyond that.  The Youtube algorithm LOVES channels which say that, and boosts them literally to the top.  KOSA won't stop that- but it WILL go after the gay and trans people.  THAT is why it's bad.  Taking (additional?) action against fringe conspiracy channels is an utter smokescreen.

[McTraveller]

I think your parody is reinforcing my point? That social media doesn't actually bring people together in the way it claims.

I think social media absolutely influences worldview, but trying to formulate a study that proves/disproves something as vague as "drive someone to extremism" is suspect. (My hypothesis is that it facilitates someone with a predilection to extremism - but would not turn someone extremist if they don't have extremist tendencies in the first place.  Basically it's a catalyst, not a cause.)

I don't disagree that KOSA is specifically targeting transgender worldview. But I don't think KOSA is bad because it's targeting that specifically - I think it's bad because it's designed to target anything.  That is - I have a more fundamental disagreement with it than the target of its censor.

[Micro102]

I recall people noticing that if you kept clicking on youtube's recommended videos, you would constantly end up at far-right channels. Not sure if they changed this since but if you guys want to personally test this, you could either destroy your own algorithm or make a new account to test, and just keep selecting recommended videos (I think you need to watch 15 seconds for the website to register you as having "watched" the video).

[Rolan7]

@McTraveller
Oh sure, we agree that KOSA is bad.  I just don't agree with your reasoning.  I think we can criticize this bill without claiming that hate speech deserves a platform.  We can certainly do so without throwing out the entire concept of studies.

I'll defend social media as a concept, though, it certainly brings people together.  My problem is with the algorithm valuing engagement (good and bad) over actual discussion.  That's not inherent to social media...  This site is social media, but there's no algorithm with a profit motive to boost hate speech and literally deadly 5-minute-crafts.  That algorithm is the problem, along with the lack of consequences for people who lie and/or encourage violence.

Regardless, we agree the bill is bad.  I'm upset because it silences minorities and doesn't silence stochastic terrorists.  You seem more concerned with free speech in a universal sense.  Either way, bad bill

I recall people noticing that if you kept clicking on youtube's recommended videos, you would constantly end up at far-right channels. Not sure if they changed this since but if you guys want to personally test this, you could either destroy your own algorithm or make a new account to test, and just keep selecting recommended videos (I think you need to watch 15 seconds for the website to register you as having "watched" the video).

Yeah that's why I was skeptical of that second link and looked into it.  Both things are true.  The algorithm does constantly push even a curated feed like mine into alt-right bullshit.  That study was using a specific (and valid!) meaning of extreme content, though, which doesn't count Matt Walsh or Tucker Carlson as "extreme".  They're profitable terrorists but they have legitimacy (funny how that works).  The study just found that most traffic to stuff like "mountains ranges are bones" and sov-cit and flat-earth burner accounts comes from external links.  Likely from other social media, but who's counting?  The study's results seem reasonable when you understand their definitions.

[Starver]

I recall people noticing that if you kept clicking on youtube's recommended videos, you would constantly end up at far-right channels. Not sure if they changed this since but if you guys want to personally test this, you could either destroy your own algorithm or make a new account to test, and just keep selecting recommended videos (I think you need to watch 15 seconds for the website to register you as having "watched" the video).

Personal experience is that I get 'recommendations' that I inevitably[1] mark to Watch Later, then splurge on them, when I get time.

Pretty much everything I get at the moment is Space/Rockets related. I used to get a lot of military firepower/"fighter-jet porn", for who knows what reason but pretty much all space news/etc right now.

One of the commentators is both a big "here's what SpaceX is doing now" person and has a very right-wing attitude to them (not a big part of their spiel, but often "sponsored by Acme Survivalist Supplies", and I wouldn't be surprised to see the guy in a Proud Boys baseball hat and body-armour, unlike some of the nerdier guys (or 'graphical avatar in a SpaceX spacesuit'). But that's as far as it's going, right now.


[1] Mostly. Sometimes the Watch Later option doesn't respond, and I have to just let the drop-down notification expire/get replaced with a new suggestion in due course.

[dragdeler]

To use YT logged in is like begging to be in a bubble, business has a known right wing bias, reality has a known left wing bias... Do your perception horizon a favor and clear your cookies before revisiting, the first round of suggestion is useless but the following can take your anywhere, remember to bookmark good channels.

[McTraveller]

Oh... I don't think hate speech deserves a platform. But I think making "hate speech" criminal is dangerous. Note the use of quotes.  I also think making it criminal to talk about something like gender is dangerous.

I much prefer a society that focuses on encouraging kindness, not on punishing hate. I want a society that actively tries to encourage inclusivity, not reinforce in-group/out-group biases.

Yeah I guess I'm a dreamer in that regard...

[The_Explorer]

So, I've stayed mostly out of the news and political stuff. Checked the news yesterday for first time in weeks. Kinda stressful and nothing can do about it.

But is there a reason (some) people are starting to stockpile again? Three different costcos and people were massively stockpiling cat/dog food, huge stacks of waters and...toilet paper again xD

is there anything going on that is making (some) people stockpile? wasnt huge hordes of people, but more than usual and enough to notice and I havent even paid attention really past couple months to what people were/are doing, so its definitely an uptick in people stockpiling again.

Saw the same thing at stater bros btw, so it isn't just happening at costco.

[Akura]

My guess is fears of a resurgence in covid, and I've been hearing concerns about flu as well. If I remember correctly, both thrive better in autumn weather.

[hector13]

I know ‘flu prefers lower humidity (<40%) which tends to happen more in the colder months.

I personally usually get sick around the changing of Summer to Fall and Winter to Spring,

[Maximum Spin]

Nobody "deserves" a platform.