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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 4435638 times)

Frumple

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #51480 on: August 30, 2023, 09:47:37 pm »

I mean, if you stick a laptop in a geriatric jackass's brainpan, things are going to go wrong.
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Lord Shonus

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #51481 on: September 01, 2023, 10:06:43 am »

https://www.theverge.com/2023/8/31/23854369/texas-porn-age-verification-law-blocked-judge

A Federal judge has issued an injunction against Texas's age-verification law for porn, calling it "blatantly unconstitutional".


This is naturally the sort of thing you expect from a judge appointed by... Ronald Reagan?

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McTraveller

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #51482 on: September 01, 2023, 11:10:41 am »

That new #1 song in the US... just sounds like a lament, based on sentiment and contains lots of unfounded certainty. I think a better way to describe it is that it contains incomplete truth: it assumes that all "rich men north of Richmond" are evil and just want to oppress people.  While it is true that some people want that, or that the systems result in that, that is not the only worldview that persists within the DC beltway (or corporate boardrooms, etc).

So my political concern is that this kind of public sentiment just froths people up and doesn't actually propose any solutions other than "let's kick people out!"  That doesn't really have a solution - because it doesn't guarantee anything other than a change - it doesn't necessarily resolve the problems.

Simply: changing the people is neither universally necessary nor universally sufficient for effective change.
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Frumple

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #51483 on: September 01, 2023, 11:44:50 am »

I mean, scoping the lyrics, if it's not poe-tier satire, it's age old welfare queen damn yankee horseshit. It doesn't have a solution because it's pulling itself out its own ass; you don't solve a problem you fucking invent yourself primarily from the aether.

It doesn't contain an incomplete truth, the entire bloody thing is wall to wall lie. Whatever truth's in it is coincidental and minor. Of course it's just there to froth people up, that sentiment is the only damn thing that shit has.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2023, 11:47:17 am by Frumple »
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Kagus

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #51484 on: September 01, 2023, 03:41:46 pm »

Bring the popcorn lads, Trump's trial is gonna be streamed

Maximum Spin

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #51485 on: September 01, 2023, 04:10:15 pm »

Simply: changing the people is neither universally necessary nor universally sufficient for effective change.
Well, does that even matter now? It's happening. Questioning the social value of the storm as it bears down on you seems irrelevant.
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McTraveller

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #51486 on: September 02, 2023, 07:52:31 am »

Isn't "questioning the social value of the storm as it bears down on you" exactly the core of politics?
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nenjin

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #51487 on: September 02, 2023, 11:47:46 am »

Otherwise known as screaming into the hurricane
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Micro102

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #51488 on: September 02, 2023, 05:04:47 pm »

That new #1 song in the US... just sounds like a lament, based on sentiment and contains lots of unfounded certainty. I think a better way to describe it is that it contains incomplete truth: it assumes that all "rich men north of Richmond" are evil and just want to oppress people.  While it is true that some people want that, or that the systems result in that, that is not the only worldview that persists within the DC beltway (or corporate boardrooms, etc).

So my political concern is that this kind of public sentiment just froths people up and doesn't actually propose any solutions other than "let's kick people out!"  That doesn't really have a solution - because it doesn't guarantee anything other than a change - it doesn't necessarily resolve the problems.

Simply: changing the people is neither universally necessary nor universally sufficient for effective change.

Kicking certain people out of government, specifically the ones that refuse to acknowledge that climate change is a man-made problem, would absolutely help us combat it. But I don't think that an astroturfed country singer who feels you need to be informed that maybe the Jews did 9/11, is the best person to decide who gets kicked out of government.

Also, does anyone perhaps live just south of DC, and could tell me if "Richmen north of Richmond" is used more to refer to DC and politics in general, or more to refer to the capital of the confederacy?
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Starver

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #51489 on: September 02, 2023, 06:36:37 pm »

Do you have any particular beef with a richman in Richmond? I mean, there's plenty of reason to, just not sure why anyone under the direct ægis of AmeriPol would have a particular concern, right now... ;)
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da_nang

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #51490 on: September 03, 2023, 07:41:08 am »

There's a lot of talk about disqualifying Trump under 14th Amendment §3, and I'm sitting here going, "Do you really want to set the precedent that a candidate can be disqualified by executive fiat without the crime in question being proven in a court of law and without any reasonable legal recourse?" It's not just democrats salivating at this, either—anti-Trump republicans are as well. That just makes me fear it will be weaponized in the future: states and congress critters banning the entire opposition for "insurrection" by fiat.

However it goes, it will certainly be challenged to SCOTUS, and then we'd be in unchartered territory. I don't think anyone, not even the confederates, ever challenged disqualification for insurrection on the basis of their not being convicted.

Spoiler: SCOTUS prediction (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: September 03, 2023, 07:43:28 am by da_nang »
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Schmaven

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #51491 on: September 03, 2023, 08:15:37 am »

There's a lot of talk about disqualifying Trump under 14th Amendment §3, and I'm sitting here going, "Do you really want to set the precedent that a candidate can be disqualified by executive fiat without the crime in question being proven in a court of law and without any reasonable legal recourse?" It's not just democrats salivating at this, either—anti-Trump republicans are as well. That just makes me fear it will be weaponized in the future: states and congress critters banning the entire opposition for "insurrection" by fiat.

The position on the left seems to be that Trump is so dangerous to the country and the world, that setting such a precedent is a price worth paying if it can stop him.  No price is too steep in fact, even democracy itself can be suspended for the cause of preventing another Trump term. 

It doesn't matter what we the people think.  The authorities always know what's best for us.
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martinuzz

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #51492 on: September 03, 2023, 09:28:22 am »

The CIA could just buy some Russian windows to solve the problem
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Lord Shonus

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #51493 on: September 03, 2023, 10:00:40 am »

There's a lot of talk about disqualifying Trump under 14th Amendment §3, and I'm sitting here going, "Do you really want to set the precedent that a candidate can be disqualified by executive fiat without the crime in question being proven in a court of law and without any reasonable legal recourse?" It's not just democrats salivating at this, either—anti-Trump republicans are as well. That just makes me fear it will be weaponized in the future: states and congress critters banning the entire opposition for "insurrection" by fiat.

However it goes, it will certainly be challenged to SCOTUS, and then we'd be in unchartered territory. I don't think anyone, not even the confederates, ever challenged disqualification for insurrection on the basis of their not being convicted.

Trump's charges for January 6 are

  •     Charge of conspiracy to defraud the United States, which includes plotting to overturn the results of the 2020 election
  •     Conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding, including plotting to prevent the 2020 election certification
  •     Obstruction of and attempt to obstruct an official proceeding, which includes actually blocking the certification of the 2020 election results
  •     Conspiracy against rights, which includes a plan to deprive someone of a constitutional right (in this case, that is the ability to vote)

Not included in this (or any other indictment)? Insurrection or rebellion. Neither he or any other Jan 6 defendant is charged with any crime that would qualify under the 14th. The entire issue can't arise.
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Micro102

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #51494 on: September 03, 2023, 12:00:37 pm »

While I don't think anyone is going to disqualify Trump for running, I do think they should.

This is not fiat. This is not arbitrary. Trump constantly lied about the election and riled up a group of people who stormed the capital in an attempt to reach Trump's political opponents, and he refused to send in the national guard. Pence, the vide president, was afraid to get in a car with secret service because he didn't trust the driver, while the group outside was calling for his death. Actors in the capital riot were charged with seditious conspiracy, and a bunch of republican representatives defended these actions, refusing to say that Biden is the president, and comparing the riots to "tourism".

This is pretty clearly just a flat out coup attempt, and the reason it's not being pressed is for several reasons. A supreme court stacked with bought and paid for extremist judges, a very difficult case that will take a very long time to collect evidence for, which would draw out the case beyond the presidential election, and a Trump base that will commit acts of terror. It might be best to just let him lose the next election, and spend the rest of his life either moving between courtrooms, or in prison.
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