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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 4435835 times)

zhijinghaofromchina

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #51450 on: August 15, 2023, 08:52:26 am »

before it becomes too late in the evening for you in China; or run out of 'screentime' quota, if that affects you
I want to ask that what does it mean , how could In run out of the sceentime quota , I can still post my posts and reply to you freely and sincerely without any screentime quota, how do you mean , dear Starver.

Here is also a link in China here to an article which is a Chinese man who repeats his experience during this disaster.
https://baijiahao.baidu.com/s?id=1774294393735896733   90% links in your posts are the ones which I can not open. But this one you can open and you can see it freely with the help of translation software.

To improve my abilities of English hearing a few days ago I watched a video which featuring the American president William Clinton visited China and answer the questions asked by the students of Peking University, a student asked 'if China sell weapons to Hawaii, (a state of the USA which would be seperated from the USA ),what will the USA government responses?' in defense of the trouble of China's problem of Taiwan, however that was about 20 years ago, when the relationship between China and the USA was much warmer than now . Maybe that video left me an impression that Hawaii plays the role of Taiwan in the USA.

Thank you, dear Lord Shonus for your quick response , it's surprise for me to know that you got to know the history of 义和拳 uprising, you are so erudite in history ,maybe I am lack of the history of Hawaii!

STILL feeling sorry about the saint lives killed by the disaster , I am not a Cristian ,but I still hoping that they can be happy and glad in the heaven! :'(
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Lord Shonus

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #51451 on: August 15, 2023, 09:14:11 am »

Maybe that video left me an impression that Hawaii plays the role of Taiwan in the USA.

Part of this impression is probably because of the Federal system - each of our states has their own government, judiciary, and military that is distinct from (though subordinate to in complicated ways) the national government, judiciary, and military. That's a very different situation from the way your country is organized, always a great recipe for confusion. But Hawaii has the same elected representation as any other state, and functions no differently from Ohio or New York or Florida except for the challenges caused by their great distance over water from the rest of the nation.

The larger part, however, is probably from a specific event that occurred in 1993, under the administration of William Jefferson Clinton. At the urging of Hawaii's senators, Daniel Inouye (a highly decorated hero of the Second World War) and Daniel Akaka (the first US Senator of Native Hawaiian ethnicity), the US Congress passed a resolution apologizing to the Native Hawaiians for the illegal annexation of their lands. This highly-publicized act probably spurred the question you are referring to, as somebody less familiar with the history might not fully realize that it was largely a symbolic act.
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Starver

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #51452 on: August 15, 2023, 10:07:15 am »

before it becomes too late in the evening for you in China; or run out of 'screentime' quota, if that affects you
I want to ask that what does it mean , how could In run out of the sceentime quota , I can still post my posts and reply to you freely and sincerely without any screentime quota, how do you mean , dear Starver.
For the first bit, it's an hour an a half to midnight for you, now, in China. Only 4:30am 5:10am (as I hastily re-edit) in Hawaii, so anyone there might not be replying.

And I wasn't sure how old you are, and I know there are (proposed?) online curfews/time-limits for young smartphone users so wondered if they might affect your participation, by the time anyone with anything of direct experience to say actually got around to saying it. Perhaps that doesn't apply to you, but I was trying to be considerate to your situation.



Quote
Here is also a link in China here to an article which is a Chinese man who repeats his experience during this disaster.
https://baijiahao.baidu.com/s?id=1774294393735896733   90% links in your posts are the ones which I can not open. But this one you can open and you can see it freely with the help of translation software.
(Will look at that link later, perhaps.) I only linked to a webcomic site (two links), because I know that most other links will not work for you but hoped that xkcd wouldn't be blacklisted. It isn't really important, but I do think it can be funny-intelligent about things. ;)



Quote
To improve my abilities of English hearing a few days ago I watched a video which featuring the American president William Clinton visited China and answer the questions asked by the students of Peking University, a student asked 'if China sell weapons to Hawaii, (a state of the USA which would be seperated from the USA ),what will the USA government responses?' in defense of the trouble of China's problem of Taiwan, however that was about 20 years ago, when the relationship between China and the USA was much warmer than now . Maybe that video left me an impression that Hawaii plays the role of Taiwan in the USA.
Yeah, that doesn't sound similar at all. Whatever your thoughts about Taiwan (probably somewhere between the official and competing positions repectively voiced by PRC/ROC governments), Hawaii is neither a full country in its own right nor a recalcitrant seperatist region who really wants nothing to do with its 'home' country and wants arms to fulfil that departure. (For that, look at Texas..? ;) )

I think the question was wrong. Wrongly inspired and/or wrongly cross-interpreted.  But I don't want to corrupt you (in the eyes of your higher officials) or make you look corrupted by introducing you to the very much different concept of Taiwan that I have. Just that pretty much no version of it is what Hawaii is like.

I did find an anti-outsider point of view in one news article. But it's not against the concept of America, just its (and other countries') tourists.
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Many in Maui say the devastation has highlighted what is known as the "two Hawaiis" - one built for the comfort of visitors and another, harsher Hawaii left to Hawaiians.
...not an unknown thing, most places where tourism/second-homes causes locals to lose out on continuing on with legacy cultural assets (like living where they grew up, working in traditional occupations and having a tight-knit community that doesn't largely dissapear over the winter months). Unless they want to (and can) leave what they think is a dead-end place. Which they may or may not be able to return to when they're older and change their minds back again. ;)



(And has anybody apologised for/about Captain Cook, yet? A quick search suggests neither, except maybe memorial monuments/markers that might be intended as such. But then James Cook visited many places and has a wide spread of landfalls recorded by architecture of some form or other.)
« Last Edit: August 15, 2023, 10:08:53 am by Starver »
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hector13

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #51453 on: August 24, 2023, 10:03:44 pm »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Telgin

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #51454 on: August 24, 2023, 10:10:30 pm »

That's the official mugshot?  Man, I read there were some AI generated versions floating around, but this one looks like it was taken with a camera from 1980.
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hector13

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #51455 on: August 24, 2023, 10:26:47 pm »

That’s been a narrative since the co-conspirators started surrendering themselves.

BBC article on the matter.

BBC article with Donald’s mugshot.
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Look, we need to raise a psychopath who will murder God, we have no time to be spending on cooking.

the way your fingertips plant meaningless soliloquies makes me think you are the true evil among us.

Starver

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #51456 on: August 24, 2023, 11:39:45 pm »

It is said that early "mugshots" were often of criminals "pulling a mug" (mug==face, of course, but deliberately gurning it) as a method to escape later recognition. The Photo(/Daguerreotype)-Of-Record, held by and distributed amongst the authorities, would be a distorted version of their real face, so far easier to look dissimilar from that than permanently try to update their features whilst out and about (minding their own business, or out and about on their criminal one) in future.

Of course, that also fuelled the physiognomists' belief that various facial distortions corresponded well to criminal tendencies (every career criminal visually recorded looked assymetrically ugly!), but of course failing to understand the sampling error/subversion.


Not that this explains Conspiritor #1, who is not exactly gonna be unrecognised (or want to be). But I wonder if anyone (deliberately or otherwise) put him in a bad mood just before the photoshoot? Actually, I think he was going for "I'm my friends' most stalwart champion, and my enemies' worst nightmare!", given he self-published the shot alongside a call for funding, but he's really only going to find that useful in those already swayed to his cause.


On the technical photo details, at one point I was in charge of taking the photos of new-hires, to go on their company access cards. I quickly found how (even without any special photographic lighting) I could make a decent-looking headshot. Counter-intuitively, it was by having the person lean against the handy bit of blank wall (in the conference room), as it greatly reduced the amount of shadow behind them (from the standard striplighting and the very nearly lense-colinear camera flash) to basically the bit of wall that their head was in the way of. (If they wore glasses, especially, I could get them to tilt their heads imperceptively so that there was also no bounce-back glare obscuring their eyes.) I think I got quite good at it, until I passed the duty on to someone else (and gave them my tips and tricks to do it not-badly).

Whether there was a deliberate (mis)aesthetic honed by the Fulton County setup, or not, I'm not sure. Could have been the new-employee, or even the random winner of the internal competition to have the honour/notoriety of wielding the mugshot camera, regardless of any prior experience. But it certainly wouldn't have gotten onto the employee Ids (even if I'd have passed it to the person creating the card, they'd have asked for me to have another go) in almost all the pics that I've seen. Not that I'd be expecting a Vogue (or Time) photoshoot quality to it, of course, but it's worse than a papperazzi snap (...well, they'd generally be aiming for representationally recognisable, of course).
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Maximum Spin

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #51457 on: August 25, 2023, 12:26:21 am »

It is said that early "mugshots" were often of criminals "pulling a mug" (mug==face, of course, but deliberately gurning it) as a method to escape later recognition. The Photo(/Daguerreotype)-Of-Record, held by and distributed amongst the authorities, would be a distorted version of their real face, so far easier to look dissimilar from that than permanently try to update their features whilst out and about (minding their own business, or out and about on their criminal one) in future.

Of course, that also fuelled the physiognomists' belief that various facial distortions corresponded well to criminal tendencies (every career criminal visually recorded looked assymetrically ugly!), but of course failing to understand the sampling error/subversion.
I have no idea where you heard this but it's not a thing.
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Starver

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #51458 on: August 25, 2023, 02:41:05 am »

I wasn't claiming truth, just that "it is said". To be precise, it was on some random TV programme, perhaps back in the '70s, so "was said" might have been better words.

But, as you seem to need practical cites, I did a quick Google...
Recent attempt to 'foil' the camera (or implicit in some of the captions of various online compilations of victorian mugshots).
Historic attempt to use as 'science'
...if there's places confirming it as mythbusted, nothing obvious came up in the initial results (including trying to draw out "disproved" in a search), but of course it was said, regardless.
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scriver

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #51459 on: August 25, 2023, 06:00:38 am »

There is a fake mugshot going around (or, it's claimed, being deliberately spread) using a cut out version of another photo of Trump with a very, very similar expression, and then a comparison with the original photo to claim the mugshot is a fake.

So far you can tell it apart from the actual mugshot by that the tie isn't straight red but if its deliberate misinformation then it wouldn't surprise me if they wise up to that and make a red tie version.

The one linked above is the real thing as far as I know, as sourced from the police station via reuters.
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Maximum Spin

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #51460 on: August 26, 2023, 12:32:51 am »

I wasn't claiming truth, just that "it is said". To be precise, it was on some random TV programme, perhaps back in the '70s, so "was said" might have been better words.

But, as you seem to need practical cites, I did a quick Google...
Recent attempt to 'foil' the camera (or implicit in some of the captions of various online compilations of victorian mugshots).
Historic attempt to use as 'science'
...if there's places confirming it as mythbusted, nothing obvious came up in the initial results (including trying to draw out "disproved" in a search), but of course it was said, regardless.
No, I mean, I'm not saying that physiognomy wasn't a thing, I'm saying that "mugging" for mug shots wasn't a thing in any kind of systematic way where people would treat it as an assumption, isn't the origin of the term, and doesn't have anything to do with the theory of physiognomy. There's just no connection between these things. I mean, you can look for yourself at the pictures in your New Zealand link - nobody is "mugging" in any of them.
The term "mug-shot" only dates to about 1950 anyway, while "mug" has been slang for a face - in general - for over a century before that.
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Mech#4

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #51461 on: August 26, 2023, 01:35:08 am »

I don't think pulling a face would make you look like a completely different person, anyway.
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Starver

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #51462 on: August 26, 2023, 07:22:58 am »

The term "mug-shot" only dates to about 1950 anyway, while "mug" has been slang for a face - in general - for over a century before that.
And "pulling a mug" is a long established phrase (quick attempt at Google-fu was swamped by pottery usage, however, I would have needed to try some more targetted research on that), as is "ugly mug" (you don't see this face-synonym partnered with a nicer term, as you might do in "fair visage", though note that either variation can be used with deliberate irony as well). "Indeed, to mug (up)" is to gurn. But note confusion with criminal mugging (theft by assault) and theatrical mugging (exagerated physical over-acting), either of which may or may not be connected; or have become so later on via some false cognate.

A mug, of the face variety, may well pre-exist the term "mugshot", but that was always the claim anyway, whatever the original usage/intention of such a spontaneous phrase as "Yes sergeant, we got a picture of his mug", lost in time but surely a variation on that theme uttered on many an instant. And so the suggestion of an origin (folk-etymology?) was once made, as I conveyed it onwards. Perhaps "it is said" just doesn't travel quite as well, as a phrase? So I'll try not to use that in future, if it can be so misconstrued.
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Maximum Spin

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #51463 on: August 27, 2023, 03:58:09 am »

And "pulling a mug" is a long established phrase (quick attempt at Google-fu was swamped by pottery usage, however, I would have needed to try some more targetted research on that), as is "ugly mug" (you don't see this face-synonym partnered with a nicer term, as you might do in "fair visage", though note that either variation can be used with deliberate irony as well). "Indeed, to mug (up)" is to gurn. But note confusion with criminal mugging (theft by assault) and theatrical mugging (exagerated physical over-acting), either of which may or may not be connected; or have become so later on via some false cognate.
I mean, the history is known, you don't have to speculate. Mug as slang for "face", recorded by 1708; "mugging" meaning to make an exaggerated expression (not necessarily an ugly one; a self-important actor can 'mug for the camera' without any implication of "gurning") as theatrical slang by 1855, developed from the former. A mug could also mean a mark or dupe in thieves' cant by 1851, probably unrelated. To mug as "to punch in the face" in boxing by 1818, which is absolutely because of the 'face' meaning; extended to general beating-up by 1846, then the modern crime of street robbery by 1864 which is probably a combination with the thieves' slang I just mentioned. People do study these things. The idea of a mug being an ugly or unpleasant face is an undercurrent throughout, but it's never mandatory, can be ironic, and, most importantly, the meaning as a noun certainly does not derive from the verb, and there is certainly no connection to the idea of criminals intentionally gurning in mugshots, because there's no reason to think such a thing ever happened in the first place (even your recent link isn't an example because you can only speculate about his reasons for making the face; since it obviously doesn't actually fool anyone, it's just as likely if not moreso that he just thought he was looking tough), and besides, the word "mug" was already in general use in low slang before photos of criminals existed. You would need a time machine for there to be a connection.

Quote
And so the suggestion of an origin (folk-etymology?) was once made, as I conveyed it onwards. Perhaps "it is said" just doesn't travel quite as well, as a phrase? So I'll try not to use that in future, if it can be so misconstrued.
No, I fully understood that you meant it was just something you heard, which is why I told you that, I don't know where you heard it, but it is not a thing. You heard wrong.
But saying that something is said doesn't mean that it doesn't matter whether it's wrong, and certainly, if you are going to go on defending it with a wishy-washy, you know, maybe it could have been, it is a mystery, who can say, you cannot also expect to distance yourself from the statement by saying you were only reporting what you heard.

Besides... your theorized connection to physiognomy, which is also definitely wrong, wasn't something you said you were just passing on. You said it as if it were a fact, even with "of course". I don't really get this half-in-half-out approach, either you stand by your statement or you don't.

ETA: I mean, to be clear, if you don't stand by it, that's fine. You are not expected to justify something you once heard and have no basis for possibly knowing anything about. But in that case, why this extremely defensive reaction to being told that it was wrong? You can just say, okay, I can't vouch for it, it's just something I heard once. Instead, you're acting like my saying it's wrong is somehow misunderstanding your intent in bringing it up. If you say you heard something once, then you must know there's a possibility people will tell you you heard wrong.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2023, 04:20:19 am by Maximum Spin »
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Starver

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #51464 on: August 27, 2023, 01:42:29 pm »

[...answer in PMs... but basically communication errors in both directions]
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