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[Lord Shonus]

Wait how are they blaming the invasion on US aid?
This seems like a reasonable nuanced take.  Do we have to pretend that the USA is being benign here?  The USA doesn't care about Ukraine, we happen to be helping for selfish great-power reasons.

"How dare you give them the weapons they are using to avoid being slaughtered" is not a nuanced take. And "they were going to use those US weapons to launch an invasion of Russia with NATO backing" is a solid plank in Putin's propaganda platform.

[Rolan7]

Yeah I agree, I'm just not seeing that take in their tweets.  I assume it looks like they're hinting in that direction but that's not how I read it.

[Lord Shonus]

From the article linked in the second tweet

The dominant Western media and government narrative about Putin’s invasion of Ukraine requires a total rejection of the legitimacy of any Russian security concerns. Viewing Putin as an unhinged madman coldly acting out of a love of brutality and conquest may be a more satisfying narrative, but it will not bring an end to the war. Any diplomatic or negotiated resolution of the crisis will necessarily entail Ukrainian concessions, so it’s important to understand Moscow’s point of view. In an interview with ABC World News on March 7, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky appeared to acknowledge this. “I think [Putin] is capable of stopping the war that he started,” Zelensky told David Muir. “And even if he doesn’t think that he was the one who started, he should know one important thing, a thing that cannot deny, that stopping the war is what he’s capable of.”

It may be the case that the flow of Western weapons to the Ukrainian forces will so bleed Russia that it pulls out of Ukraine, fatally damaging Putin’s grip on power and saving many lives. In that case, these shipments will be seen as a decisive factor in Ukraine’s defeat of Russia. But if it doesn’t, and the flow of weapons delays a negotiated settlement between Russia, Ukraine, and NATO, then it is hard to see the massive scope of the weapons transfers as a clear positive.

The decisions made now in Washington, other NATO capitals, and Moscow will have sweeping ramifications for years to come. Citizens of Western nations cannot control the actions of Putin, but they can advocate for commonsense responses from their own leaders. This requires considering the predictable and foreseeable long-term consequences of short-term action. In the face of heinous atrocities against civilians and a heartbreaking refugee crisis, it is understandable that good people would demand extreme action in the name of bringing it all to a halt. The tragic reality is that escalation by the U.S. and NATO will not achieve that, certainly not without grave costs, and could lead to an even worse catastrophe for Ukrainian civilians, if not a wider global conflict. In that case, the only beneficiaries will be those who are now winning the war in Ukraine: the weapons manufacturers and arms dealers.

It's literally Putin's entire propaganda message chewed up and spat back out, with a dash of face-saving "well, we obviously don't support this invasion, but if you fight back it is your own fault you're dying since you're guaranteed to lose".

[Duuvian]

Here is a related NYTimes article from the 8th:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/08/nyregion/dsa-nato-ukraine-russia.html

Here is what appears to be the blog of a professor who was or is a member with an opinion on the matter:

https://takingsides.medium.com/the-left-and-putin-continued-the-case-of-dsa-12d9bddbd1dd
Last paragraph posted as it's notable:
"I don’t know what impels a legitimate magazine to publish an outright slander. At a moment when it is absolutely contemptible from just about any standpoint you can take. What’s with the alt-Left? WTF!"

I don't know anything about the organization itself other than if I remember correctly I was surprised and probably angry by their position when I was seeing news about this more often.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/16/world/middleeast/mass-graves-syria-war-crimes.html

I think I was irked that it was a group I thought would be something I would have learned more about otherwise because I think that was how I heard of it. I can't remember for sure though. It's likely I was conflicted in opinion as I was frustrated about wars in Afghanistan and Iraq as well.

EDIT: Clarified a little. Also not an expert. I probably agree with some if not most of this groups' positions (haven't checked) but I recently complimented the other party on what I felt were positive internal criticisms.

[lemon10]

From the article linked in the second tweet

It's literally Putin's entire propaganda message chewed up and spat back out, with a dash of face-saving "well, we obviously don't support this invasion, but if you fight back it is your own fault you're dying since you're guaranteed to lose".

Some elements of the far left-wing in America are strongly against American foreign policy to the point of saying that anyone that the US is against is good even if they are obviously evil people and scumbags (eg. saying Ghaddafi was a good and just leader when he was being overthrown).

To some extent they have a point; in general American foreign policy has been pretty toxic over the last century or whatever, supporting numerous terrible people and doing numerous terrible things, so opposing them on general principal isn't the worst idea ever.
However sometimes (like now) the US government really is taking the good path, and then they just end up supporting dictators and autocrats against democracy.

[Lord Shonus]

This is precisely correct, amd it is stronger the more Online they are.

[MaxTheFox]

I am, at heart, a pragmatist. Why would I be anti-American if America is doing the right thing for once?

[anewaname]

It doesn't matter what excuses Putin gives... Russia invaded Ukraine because Ukraine had become a significant threat to the stability of Russia's energy exports.

The flow of coal/gas/crude from Russia to the EU has been stable and that means better profit. If Ukraine allowed western oil companies to exploit the natural gas reserves under the Black Sea, Russia would lose market stability in their "lowest co2 emission" product.

When the Black Sea deposits were found, Ukraine didn't have the infrastructure to extract the fuel. Both Russia and the West influenced the Ukrainian election and the Zelenskyy won. Ukraine begin working with western oil companies. Putin's Russia reacted violently.

[Lord Shonus]

While the prospect of losing the ability to dominate Europe via fossil fuel energy is almost certainly a factor in Russia's thinking, the black sea deposits you're referring to almost certainly are not. Even Germany (whose anti-nuclear stance made them more dependent than any other nation) was on track to massively increase non-fossil energy production. By the time virgin deposits could begin extraction and the delivery infrastructure could be connected, demand would have dropped significantly.

Putin dreams of resurrecting the old dreams of empire from the Tsars or the Soviets, and he wanted to bolster Russia's fading strongman image with a Short Victorious War that would intimidate the West. That's why you saw first-line mobile ICBMs being moved toward Moscow for the victory parade, and why the victory press releases were issued three days into the fight when they were originally scheduled.

The fact that his puppet government got deposed in a truly democratic election probably didn't help.

[Rolan7]

I am not just against Russian imperialism, I am against all imperialism.  I am especially against Russian imperialism because it's extraordinarily queer-phobic, and it's just as capitalist as disgusting American imperialism.

Unrelated:  My mom's telling me about how this new SC nomination is going to fix everything.  We'll "go back to brunch", so to speak.  Absolute madness.

The Supreme Court is a deeply flawed institution which has always been partisan, only somewhat moderated by entirely voluntary concepts of "honor".  It was completely ransacked by a criminal placing cronies for the obvious purpose of supporting his dreams of dictatorship.  Is that too much?  Fine, it's just been stacked with a rapist and a cultist.

My mother tells me that this moderate will fix everything.  Liberals are fucking wild.  I should know, I held on to it long enough.  I'm done pretending, and I'm preparing for the end.  This farce only worked as long as I was promised a future.

[Frumple]

In also fucking wild news, the GOP governor of utah actually vetoed the trans athlete ban (couldn't be arsed to find a better link, so have a twitter post) their legislature put on their desk. Weirdest thing I've seen from the GOP this month, I think.

[Rolan7]

In also fucking wild news, the GOP governor of utah actually vetoed the trans athlete ban (couldn't be arsed to find a better link, so have a twitter post) their legislature put on their desk. Weirdest thing I've seen from the GOP this month, I think.

True that's a good bit of news.  He objected to the bill on technical issues, which I respect.  I am convinced he hates my very existence, but I respect him for having legal standards.  That's his job.

[Starver]

But, I think I heard on the news, earlier... Elsewhere DeSantis (I think?) actually overturned the result of a swim-meet because he didn't like the trans-woman winning it..?

Noting that it's always going to be tricky with this issue, but if the sporting body allows a competitor to compete then it is their say-so that counts, after already having had to deal with both positive and negative opinions from the community of sportspeople/etc it acts as an umbrella for. For better or worse[1], a decision is made and then some politician forces (or unilaterally declares) a change from outside. Which sounds just like that guy...



[1] This is of course an inherently contentious issue, and I have no idea what process made it possible. Though not with trans-issues, yet[2], I've seen how utterly competing views on single-issue changes to rules can (according to one's viewpoint) stall necessary changes or persist in bringing time-wastingly disruptive proposals back to the fore time after time after time.

[2] Though my organisation has successfully inserted trans-recognising text into the R&Rs, plus gender-neutralised all language not specific to (recognised-)gender splits in competition. I've yet to hear of any competion-winner issues, though I've already heard both sides of the arguments (from all sides of the gender-divide) during the discussions we had in order to rubber-stamp the basic equality changes.

[Rolan7]

As you're kinda pointing out, the trans-athletes issue (while important) isn't really the largest issue threatening trans people in the Amer-region right now.  The things happening in Texas, Idaho and Alabama are also bad and worse.

I'm obvious emotional about this, which might seem weird for someone who's just non-binary.  I've finally been taking steps (and certain people from my past will likely see this).  It's difficult.  There are so many barriers.  It's not good, it's not right-

And on top of all that, these elected officials are trying to make it worse, and commanding trusted guardians to reveal gender-questioning children to their parents - or sending investigators to interrogate supportive parents!  It's SICK.
It's ILLEGAL, mostly.
It's disgusting.

I wouldn't wish harm on any of these people for my own sake.  But some people, who I care about very much, reminded me that they've been suffering under such things for years.  It's literally life or death, or the unlife I've maintained.  I want the people pushing this hateful shit removed from office.
BTW people in the community don't want to give minors hormones.  That's a scare tactic and fringe idea.  Minors should have access to hormone *blockers*, which allow cis questioning people to experience their puberty a bit later.  It's established medical science used for other purposes for years now.

[delphonso]

The parallels between letting non-whites play sports and trans athletes play sports is wild. Even down to it being a proxy front for real social change.