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[McTraveller]

I do have to wonder if the actual soldiers believe the cause for which they're being ordered to move, and are like "heck yeah we are in the right here!" or if they are "well this is our orders and even though I don't know how true they are I'm going to trust the commanders and hope they're right" or "I don't care if it's right or wrong it gives me an excuse to get on a power trip."

Putin's claims seem so absurd from an outside perspective - but do they really seem absurd from within Russia?  I just have know way of knowing for sure how much my views are manipulated rather than accurate.  The other thing that I don't know is - how much of those are his claims versus the views of a significant portion of his population?  Does the average Russian citizen really think that NATO and the US are going to use Ukraine to stage military action against Russia?

I mean I don't think the average US person really has that strong a feeling about Russia.  Well, not until now - it really does feel like massive psychological manipulation on all sides.

[TamerVirus]

[voliol]

Yeah, you have to be careful not to be swept along, when NATO/the US too are in it for the geo- and internal political gains. E.g. Biden could use a new war after Afghanistan and with new elections coming up for his party members. Maybe I am being a cynic, but I doubt many actually care about the people living in Ukraine

[da_nang]

Well now would be a good time for my country to join NATO.

Neutrality won't protect us. Only Bigger Army Diplomacy can.

[martinuzz]

Yeah, you have to be careful not to be swept along, when NATO/the US too are in it for the geo- and internal political gains. E.g. Biden could use a new war after Afghanistan and with new elections coming up for his party members. Maybe I am being a cynic, but I doubt many actually care about the people living in Ukraine

This is beyond national geo- and internal political gains.
This is Putin (and other autocracies watching with interest) versus the free world. Or at least the world that the UN and many international treaties, to which the Soviet Union / Russia are also bound by agreement, tried to create after WW2, which is, the world where civilized nations respect each other's borders and don't go play landgrab at the cost of many innocent lives.

[martinuzz]

Our prime minister Rutte was called away to go to a security briefing about Russian troops moving into the seperatist areas during a live tv interview, where he had just said "ofcourse, this man is completely paranoid" about Putin. "he tries to paint the government of Ukraine as a dictatorship, while in reality it is a democratically elected government".
"Which is very different from the situation in Russia", he added cynically.

[voliol]

Yeah, you have to be careful not to be swept along, when NATO/the US too are in it for the geo- and internal political gains. E.g. Biden could use a new war after Afghanistan and with new elections coming up for his party members. Maybe I am being a cynic, but I doubt many actually care about the people living in Ukraine

This is beyond national geo- and internal political gains.
This is Putin (and other autocracies watching with interest) versus the free world. Or at least the world that the UN and many international treaties, to which the Soviet Union / Russia are also bound by agreement, tried to create after WW2, which is, the world where civilized nations respect each other's borders and don't go play landgrab at the cost of many innocent lives.

Fair enough. I do dislike blanket terms like ”the free world” but it is a problem for everyone if ”big state eats little state, army style” becomes common again.

[martinuzz]

I have to say, I barely recognize present day Putin compared to how he looked some years ago. His face is so.. swollen.
Perhaps he has a brain tumor and is using prednisolon or similar anti-edema medication?

[nenjin]

He's just getting older and fatter. That tends to happen and shitloads of Vodka just speeds up the process. Happens to the best (and worst) of us.

This has also played out so far how I imagined it would. The only question now is if they'll stop there or start shelling into Ukraine. Maybe, maybe not. They were patient enough to wait in Donetsk for a decade for their chance, maybe they'll just ship their mercenaries and Spetznaz across the new borders and start over again. By the time I'm 55 or 60, Ukraine will be in Russian hands again.

[Starver]

You know, I was thinking that, earlier this evening. Not sure when the last time I saw him 'live' and current (not in ice-hockey kit, and even that was a while ago... not being an avid Putin-watcher) or at least in a "today, here is where he went to wrestle some bears" news report, but he looked a bit more 'built up' about the face than his famously sharp and lean features of yesteryear. Or at least the internal characature I had of him.

I just put it down to more luxurious living and less of his prevous fitness-fanaticism, but now that you mention it, and I know I'm not just imaginging it, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that it's something of a (possibly normal age-related?) metabolic change and not just letting himself go a bit.

[LordBaal]

Con paciencia y saliva, el elefante se lo mete a la hormigita.

Roughly traslated to, with patience and saliva, the elephant penetrates the little ant.

It seem suversive, seemingly passive actions over generations is how madness is taking over the world.

[KittyTac]

Whoever shoots Putin is a hero. Can we have a fucking coup already? https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2022/02/21/russia-ukraine-kill-list-lgbt/

[KittyTac]

I sometimes wonder. Why do so many Russians put up with, or even believe Putin's lies?

Sometimes I think it is the legacy of Stalin killing just about every intellectual the country had. Their genetic basis for intelligence has been severely hampered.

Ummmmm. That's fucking racist. Seriously man? They've been brainwashed. And honestly a huge minority, if not a majority, of Russians hate the government at this point. Nobody in their right mind thinks Ukraine is a staging ground for a NATO invasion. Boomers are often not in their right mind.

[Rolan7]

Yeah the idea of genetic intelligence is a bit yikesy (and more importantly, scientifically discredited).

I don't know exactly what to make of these current events.  I'll say this though: While we in the USA have our own embarrassing propaganda machine serving our government's interests, I will agree that Putin losing power would be extremely beneficial to the Russian people and probably the world.  Not the sort of thing I say lightly.  He's also a monster of a person, a KGB operative who is human but only in the most technical sense.

[KittyTac]

Please, our liberals are incompetent but at least they're not going to drive the country off a fucking cliff by getting into a war with NATO.