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[Frumple]

I don't think most people in the US want "universal health care." What the majority in the US wants is "low cost health care without having to pay premiums or my taxes going up."

Note even what you said - the supermajority wants a public option - I guarantee if that wasn't an option but was mandated then you'd get different poll results.

That's the thing with polls - you can usually word them in a way to get whatever result you want.  Polls suck.

I mean, you didn't say anything about a specific form of it. Explicitly mandated gov't controlled healthcare isn't necessary for universal healthcare sans crippling burdens. A public option would give universal healthcare to the US, or close enough to it to fix a shitton of our healthcare issues. A supermajority wants that. A supermajority of the US population wants universal healthcare, flat out.

[Telgin]

Cut out the private companies and healthcare becomes cheaper. There aren't any CEOs taking huge paychecks, or accountants running the numbers for each company, or lawyers for each company, etc. etc.

I've always wondered what would happen to the employees of health insurance companies if we ever did that.  Similar to if tax preparation wasn't stupid in the US and had a gigantic industry behind it, but that's a different discussion.

I wouldn't mourn the loss of the CEOs, but for the people at the bottom I do wonder.  It would be better for everyone in the long run, and I imagine at least some would get absorbed into whatever government body replaced it.

[Frumple]

They'd find something else to do, probably at least somewhat involving the new economic activity that would come from nixing much of the wasteful predatory vultureshit inherent in the insurance industry and our fucked up healthcare system and letting the money sunk into it flap off to somewhere more useful. There'd definitely be short term disruption, which would suck for the ground level folks for a bit, but that happens with any major economic effect.

[Micro102]

It would just be the same problem we currently have with automation. It's inevitable that eventually (if it hasn't already happened), there will be more people than jobs that need to be done by people. Which is another reason to make healthcare universal, along with necessities like housing, water, food, etc. And these things being universally available would actually make it feasible to quit a job without going homeless, meaning the demand for labor would normalize.

[Rolan7]

Yeah, they can share their fate with coal workers.  They don't deserve job security just because they're white collar.
Though honestly, most of the actual work of an insurance company, measuring risk and crunching financial numbers, seems pretty transferable to other companies and the government.  It's a valuable skill that can be used for good.  So in practice they probably do get more job security despite their previous position being harmful to human existence.

[McTraveller]

I totally agree that the US health insurance and health provider industry is out of whack. I think an important first step, which should be easier to get passed politically, would be to (as mentioned above) break health insurance tied to employment.  It really sucks to change health insurance companies when you change jobs.  It makes little sense to tie health premiums to specific employers rather than classes of work*.

I did that this year, and we had used up the deductible with the company I had at the beginning of the year.  Change companies, deductible resets.  Expensive.

I think you can do that without even changing the tax benefit: you keep the income tax deduction for health insurance premiums (but remove the tax deduction for employer-paid portion; basically make the employers pay that to the individuals) but legislate that policies go with people, not with jobs.

You've also got to break the AMA rules and normalize the requirements for becoming certified medical professionals across the states.  There's no reason that "first aid" type medical services should cost as much as they do - seriously cuts, bruises, even stitches and simple broken bones (including x-rays) should not cost $5000.  Surgery, sure that can cost more, but if you allow "local doctors" you can have greater supply which will relieve cost pressure.

Spoiler: * (click to show/hide)

I do believe it makes sense to tie insurance premium to type of work. If you are a lumberjack or steel mill worker, you have a different probability of work injury than say a school teacher or real estate agent.  But this also means we need to split health insurance into several types - basic health care, "injury insurance", and "chronic illness insurance".

I'm really interested in practical ideas on how to actually make things like housing, food, whatever "universally available".  Or more accurately, I'm interested in the missing piece - at what price do you intend for them to be universally available?  What is the tolerable length of waiting list for, say, a house in a town you want to move to be available?  What if you want to move to a town where there are no houses?  What do you do about things  that aren't fungible, and so can't be universally available?  Is a house in Detroit the same as LA as the same as Fictional, Kansas?

Also, I guess I'm getting old and cynical, in that you think that the funds not spent on health care premiums would be spent on more "useful" things instead of frivolity.

[Random_Dragon]

Honestly, getting CEOs to give up their power and fortunes, well...I can't see any chance of a peaceful outcome there. So guess that means as an upshot there won't be unemployed CEOs.

[Frumple]

Also, I guess I'm getting old and cynical, in that you think that the funds not spent on health care premiums would be spent on more "useful" things instead of frivolity.

I mean, buying a knife to stab yourself (or maybe a health insurance ceo, I'unno) in the eye with would be more useful than paying health premiums in the current system, so it's not like the bar to pass here is exactly high

We've seen where freed up expenses and "free" money goes, though (and been seeing it for years and years), and most of it legitimately doesn't go to "frivolity" (nevermind the benefits involved with de-stressing activities and the economic knockon effects). I've been around shitpoor people all my life, and folks much helped by these kinds of changes just don't bloody operate like that. It's just not how most people act or think, at all, especially with all the horseshit they have to deal with these days.

The younger generations are literally killing industries due to not acting like that.

[McTraveller]

Eh dunno, I heard the youngsters working in a restaurant around here talking about their overclocked video cards.  If that isn't frivolity... 

The death of some industries due to generational changes - that's an interesting topic for another time...

[None]

that might be because it's one way to get more performance out of ailing cards made eight years ago since supply is still tight for current ones

also, it might have something to do with people buying into hobbies to make the awful jobs worth living through

[Dunamisdeos]

I mean you got teenagers living at home, and 20-somthings on their own. Naturally, totally different spending habits.

[martinuzz]

Good news for girls in Afghanistan: Taliban says they will allow girls to go to school until they reach adulthood.

Minor detail that still needs to be adressed, girls are considered adult at age 9.

[Max™]

Regarding health insurance industry workers being put out of work... fuck 'em.

I took a course to sell that shit and/or life insurance, the thought of doing it made me want to die.

Capitalism requires poverty to function > profit can be squeezed from healthcare > nobody wants to end up underwater or without healthcare entirely (it sucks yo) > it's thus easier to make people stop complaining when you bend them over the counter and ream their asses while telling them they should be honored to make $7.25/hr > seems like a good time to own stock in guillotines and pitchforks to me.

[McTraveller]

Are there no solutions that do not involve the demonization of people who are more likely than not just trying to make their own meager way in the world?

[TamerVirus]

Good news for girls in Afghanistan: Taliban says they will allow girls to go to school until they reach adulthood.

Minor detail that still needs to be adressed, girls are considered adult at age 9.

Ya know there’s a thing called lying