Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[nenjin]

Birth, according to some people.

Honestly, people seem to approve of the missile strike. It was targeted with a purpose, it was limited, it didn't endanger any US lives. Even Syrian (and Russian) casualties were limited or avoided because they warned them of the strike beforehand. And it doesn't force the US to commit to anything further.

There's this little concept called "escalation." It's the reason you don't just go "well I'm going to tax your ass because I can." Because then the other side goes "Oh yeah?" and does something in response. Then you go "OH YEAH?!?!?!" and do something else.

Actual diplomats realize tit-for-tat is how you end up in a war with a super power. That's why you don't aggravate your opponent with small shit like this. You either avoid war, or commit to it. This is just a publicity stunt with missiles.

The funny part is, Russia has always been shit at diplomacy because they're too prideful to back away from anything. The highest organs of Russian government will blatantly lie to the world even when evidence to the contrary is readily available. They simply don't give a fuck what the world thinks of what they do.

In terms of credibility the US has always had more when it comes to diplomacy. Now though, with Trump administration is essentially handling diplomacy the way Russia always has (bluff your ass off, threaten use of force), they're probably less capable of achieving any sort of diplomatic solution with Russia because we're playing at their level. And so instead they'll double down on the harsh worlds, bluffs and eventual use of force.

[PTTG??]

I don't know a single person who thinks Trump's attack was good.  If if was Obama, it'd still be stupid.

The last thing we need is another war in the middle east, and if he wanted to help people in Syria, he wouldn't try to block people from fleeing the regime. Meanwhile Trump is probably giving his son in law show new job title or something else.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Believe it or not, I'm more positive towards this than the majority of things Trump has done. My long-standing concern was that Trumpu-sempai's total lack of geopolitical understanding would lead him to follow his Russophile supporters and back Assad, effectively ensuring Russian dominance in the region. That seems to be impossible now, unless Trump really is going to turn around and roll over for the Russians in public.

It's not good but it is at least sort of competent. Sort of. Accidentally. Such is the bar I set for Orange Slice, but this is the second time he actually managed it (first was TPP).

[TheBiggerFish]

...Well, I bet this is gonna suck either way.

[Frumple]

Believe it or not, I'm more positive towards this than the majority of things Trump has done. My long-standing concern was that Trumpu-sempai's total lack of geopolitical understanding would lead him to follow his Russophile supporters and back Assad, effectively ensuring Russian dominance in the region. That seems to be impossible now, unless Trump really is going to turn around and roll over for the Russians in public.

It might still be on the books, actually. One of the more noticeable side notes to this whole shitshow is apparently that basically the only notable casualty in the attack was a syrian general known to be an opponent of assad. Maybe there won't be public roll over, but events seem to still be capable of this turning into following the rus.

[Azzuro]

Anecdotally, some of the more liberal parts of the net I frequent have people saying this is the first good thing Trump has done. They seem to be basing this entirely on how Obama's 'red line' rhetoric was laughable and the 2013 chemical weapons disarmament agreement failed in retrospect, so Trump striking Syria over chemical weapons = strong and good, showing Russia and Syria both that the US is 'serious'. I'm reserving judgement for now.

[Sergarr]

I don't know a single person who thinks Trump's attack was good.

Most Democratic Senators, most pro-Democrat TV show guests, most leaders of USA allied countries... there's a pretty large number of people who support this action wholeheartedly, without any reservation.

[martinuzz]

If there had been any indication it was going to fucking happen. Maybe, hey, ask congress. Say something to the public that indicates something more was about to go down than empty blustering. Stuff like that. I'unno about the rest of my countrymen but I'd really bloody appreciate some heads up before we start doing shit that has the political implications this did.

This.
Right now his unpredictability and obscurity levels have reached such heights that I am almost fearing that he'll surprise bomb Berlin Airport to punish the Merkel regime for what happened in Stockholm, while screaming 'refugees of mass destruction are a serious threat to the US so we had to act'.

[Playergamer]

whoever was saying follow the money on syria: I believe there was something about a gas pipeline from SA/UAE to Europe that was being stopped by Russian-backed Syria. If the US could get Europe to kick Russian gas, that'd be a big blow.


Edit: Qatar. The pipeline would've moved gas from Qatar to Turkey, where it could connect to a European pipeline. Syria rejected it to protect Russian interests. This was all shortly before the Arab Spring, and the Syrian Civil War starting.

[nenjin]

Syria was and still is a quagmire. Obama understood that. It sucks that we essentially had to stand around and watch Syrians die by the thousands, but it was that or deepen our commitment to Syria, directly confront Russia and start a new regional conflict. I've hated what's happened in Syria but without the rest of the world behind us, I was unwilling to watch the US take on direct responsibility for the whole thing. I think that's how Obama might have felt too. We like coming to people's rescue but the cost has become higher and higher every time we do so.

So I think some people are saying this is an ok thing by Trump because they're happy we're doing something visibly proactive and violent in Syria, to assauge the guilt from years of watching Syrians get slaughtered en masse. But America feeling better about its moral high ground isn't a good enough reason to poke the Russian bear IMO. Syria was fucked before we got there, it'll probably be fucked even if we were to invade, topple Assad and kick Russia the fuck out. And thinking that we can bully the Russians into leaving, when sanctions, the condemnation of the world didn't work, and it didn't work for Crimea either and barely stopped the invasion of Ukraine...is seriously misjudging the Russian commitment to giving us the finger. Russia does not back down to shit like this.

[Frumple]

... and in other news, apparently while all this was happening gorsuch was confirmed. Don't blame malice what can be explained by coincidence and all that, but the timing on all this shit would have trouble looking worse if someone was actively trying push things that way.

[Greiger]

I am also thinking this is more likely a good thing than a bad thing.  Especially if everything I've been hearing is true, that it was in retaliation of chemical warfare, and that the Russians were warned to get their guys out of there. Changes if that was not true, but I am currently seeing what I consider good evidence that it was in retaliation, and weak, but at least some, evidence that the russians were warned.

To my knowledge america is the only country with the means to punish actions like that, and it's about time we got out the spanking paddle instead of just wagging our fingers and saying 'don't do that'.  As if we legitimately think repeating 'Swiper no swiping' will actually stop a thief.

Yes it is dangerous territory we're going into, but it needs to be done.  There's a burning building in the international community, and it's going to be dangerous for anyone to fight the fire, but the US is the only one who owns a firesuit.

That said, this could indeed end badly, I don't know the future.  But it dosn't change the fact that something needs to be done.  And this is so far, the only thing that can be attributed Orange that I can agree with.

EDIT: Yea maybe we're poking the russian bear, but the russian bear would probably love the whole world to burn if this is how they respond.  If that's the case, maybe we should be poking them harder and with pointed objects.

[Folly]

The Syrian ambassador is talking right now. He's claiming that the chemical weapons used were not from Assad, but rather from terrorists attacking Syria. He claims that the airbase the US destroyed had women and children inside, who died in the attack, placing the US in the same category as the terrorists who used the chemical weapons.

Most of these claims have already been proven untrue...but still, owch.

[Vilanat]

The syrian ambassador credibility is akin to flat earth conspiracy advocates.

If the airstrike manages to deter Assad from gassing his own citizens and i imagine it did had a greater effect at that, it wasn't a good thing, it was crucial.

[Greiger]

Even if what he says is true (which it isn't), and if we capetbombed the whole base into nonexistence (which signs point to we didn't) housing significant numbers of women and children noncombatants directly on a military target immediately after a military strike with potential for retaliation (which would be true even if the story of the attacked town was a rebel chemical manufacturing plant wasn't a lie)shows that Assad shouldn't be in charge of the protection of his own people.