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[nenjin]

Because people have no oversight, and no transparency.

Wait what? It's a whole lot easier to have oversight over "people" than it is to have oversight over the government, methinks.

So you think it would be easier to monitor children behind the closed doors of many widely distributed private homes, as opposed to a single open facility with staff who are obligated to be responsive to public inquiries?

That presumes that both the agencies and the apparatus with oversight of them are responsive to public inquiry. See: the US, ICE and the treatment of illegal immigrants and what has been done with their children.

[dragdeler]

-

[feelotraveller]

I consider myself pro-life because I support the idea that human life begins prior to it scooting out from the vagina.

I think this is a much more complicated statement than you seem to think. 

Defining is life is a contested task, both philosophically and biologically rather than open and shut case, after a few millenia we're not even close yet.  (In fact the concept of life is likely incomplete and flawed, but I digress.)  Take for example a cancerous tumour - it is clear that it is living but not in sense that your position wants.  No one would regard cutting that out as an abortion. 

What your position relies on is rather the religious concept of 'ensoulment', that element which gives personhood (according to christianity, at least).  Although current views tend towards the moment of conception constituting this soul-giving historically there has been quite a lot of variation often with dates between a month and three months after conception being prevalent.  (cf. Phillip K. Dick's 'The Prepersons' where abortion is considered legal until about 12 since the soul is not thought to be present until the ability to do algebra is demonstrable.)

The significance of this becomes apparent when we consider that criminalising abortion does not affect those christian women who are always going to carry a pregnancy to term (in the ordinary course of things) but rather a whole other bunch of women many/most of whom do not share this religious view of ensoulment.

That is is why the argument about 'potential' human persons (i.e. the unborn) attains its place.  Unfortunately it is riddled with problematic reductio ab absurdum (see Reelya's comment, and also Monty Python's 'Every sperm [and egg] is sacred') since there is a whole developmental process which extends both before conception and after birth (P.K. Dick - although it should be noted that he wrote that story specifically as an anti-abortion comment on Roe vs. Wade).

While I'm totally fine with, and often even staunchly defend, the right of people to hold religious views that my bizarreness finds peculiar, that only extends so far as until it comes into contact with the right of others to peacefully conduct their own lives.*  Hence I'm fine with Muslims believing it is blasphemy to portray their prophet up until they start killing people over it.  And I'm fine with christians having strange procreative practices and values up until it comes into conflict with others who have different beliefs and practices.

To round out with a soundbite from an Australian senator from a few years ago in reference to a potential ministerial (=political) veto over use of RU486 (rather than being overseen by the Therapeutic Goods Administration): [edited]
"Keep your rosaries off our ovaries."

How hard can that be?


* Still gonna tell em they're wrong from time to time though. 

[grave worm]

I consider myself pro-life because I value the lives of doctors who are murdered because they perform abortions.

If Christians were really concerned about saving living souls then they would go full Jain and wear small clothes over their mouths to prevent themselves from swallowing and killing insects. Maybe the Pro-Life party would be able to conjure up a modicum of morality and apprehension about constantly instigating endless wars across the planet that kill and immiserate millions of people with living souls.

[MrRoboto75]

wear small clothes over their mouths

🤔

[Rolan7]

wear small clothes over their mouths

🤔

STOP TOUCHING YOUR FACE

[grave worm]

lol. cloths*

[MrRoboto75]

wear small clothes over their mouths

🤔

STOP TOUCHING YOUR FACE

NO

*nervous ticks of messing with hair, irritation of acne, yadda yadda*

[MorleyDev]

In more immediate news, everybody's favorite/least favorite wannabe autocrat continues purging officials who dare disagree with him. Because that's healthy.

[hector13]

Well he won, so why should he stop the process of government because everyone else said he didn’t?

[SOLDIER First]

If Christians were really concerned about saving living souls then they would go full Jain and wear small clothes over their mouths to prevent themselves from swallowing and killing insects. Maybe the Pro-Life party would be able to conjure up a modicum of morality and apprehension about constantly instigating endless wars across the planet that kill and immiserate millions of people with living souls.

But Bay12 Forums user grave worm, that's the problem! (American) Christians by and large do not consider non-Christians to be people, and therefore do not experience empathy for them.

[Reelya]

I'm listening to a podcast going into "journalist" Andy Ngo who covers antifa violence. After the incident where Andy was punched and he said it was an unprovoked attack by those nasty antifa people, leaked video turned up where Andy was at a planning meeting of Patriot Prayer where they were actively planning an attack on the bar where the antifa people were hanging out, and they were talking about how they (Patriots) had more weapons than the antifa geeks and how their boss was bringing more car loads of guys.

So he's at a literal fascist planning session where they're planning 1930s type Nazi brownshirt shit against the left but apparently this whole section of the story wasn't newsworthy to Andy, only the fact that their intended victims fought back made the story. That should tell you everything you need to know about him. We know all this partly because there was another journalist going undercover in the same Patriot Prayer thing, and he was there and there is footage of it and reporting. So Andy is embedded in a modern-day fascist brownshirt unit, rides along to their raid on a hangout of lefties, then while the attack's going on he's up in the face of the lefties asking what they have to say for themselves and surprisingly, someone decks him.

When confronted with the whole story he admitted he was there during the attack planning, but said he was preoccupied with his phone and didn't realize he was even involved in a raid on the bar until they got there. So his defense was that he's literally a very bad journalist and doesn't pay attention to anything happening around him. He could be in the room while they're planning 9/11 and he wouldn't have a clue what's happening until he's on the plane about to hit the building, and he'd frantically be writing an article about how bad airline safety has become in the USA. Then, later he miraculously survives and says "I had no idea I was involved with planning a terrorist attack, I was on my phone playing Angry Birds the entire time, promise!"

[WealthyRadish]

This is also the guy who habitually affects a fake British accent, bizarrely. He's one of the more well-known scammers making a career out of stoking the aNTifA vIoLEnCE fears, in the sort of post-"Alex Jones" generation of this sort of thing.

[grave worm]

Not advocating violence or anything but armok bless our antifa supersoldiers for pelting that guy with a milkshake, I hope he has to look over his shoulder until the day he succumbs to milkshaking induced brain damage.

[MrRoboto75]

milkshaking induced brain damage.

oh no, Brain Freeze