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[RedKing]

So...the vital question becomes, when do they *start* counting absentee ballots? And there's two components to that question:
1. When do they start processing the ballots (taking them out of the envelope, inspecting the ballot to make sure it's filled out correctly, flattening it out so that it will feed properly into the tabulator, and putting them in stacks to be processed more efficiently)
2. When do they start the actual counting by feeding the ballots into the counting machines?

Obviously, a well-run election would process them as early as possible and then either start tabulating them early (and keep the vote tally secret and secure) or tabulate them on Election Day. Because of paranoia and partisan shenanigans, the answer is yet again a patchwork of different answers for each state. I really need to put together a table to bring all this data together in an easy to read format, but the SMF implementation of tables makes my eyes hurt. So have another list:

Alabama: Processing starts midnight 11/3, counting starts 7am 11/3.
Alaska: Processing started 10/27, counting starts 8pm 11/3.
Arizona: Processing started 10/20, counting started 10/20.
Arkansas: Processing started 10/27, counting starts 8:30am 11/3.
California: Processing started 10/5, counting starts 8pm 11/3.
Colorado: Processing starts upon receipt, counting started 10/19.
Connecticut: Processing started 10/27, counting starts 11/3.
Delaware: Processing starts 10/30, counting starts 10/30.
District of Columbia: Processing date not specified by law, counting starts 8pm 11/3.
Florida: Processing started 10/12, counting started 10/12.
Georgia: Processing starts upon receipt, counting starts 7am 11/3.
Hawaii: Processing starts upon receipt, counting started 10/24.
Idaho: Processing starts upon receipt, counting starts 8pm 11/3.
Illinois: Processing starts within 2 days of receipt, counting starts 7pm 11/3.
Indiana: Processing starts upon receipt, counting starts midnight 11/3.
Iowa: Processing starts 11/2, counting starts 11/3.
Kansas: Processing data not specified by law, counting date not specified by law but "final tabulation shall not be completed until Election Day"
Kentucky: Processing started 9/21, counting starts "once all absentee ballots have been processed"
Louisiana: Processing date not specified by law, counting "may begin before Election Day but no later than 8pm on Election Day"
Maine: Processing starts 10/30, counting starts 8pm 11/3.
Maryland: Processing date not specified by law, counting started 10/1.
Massachusetts: Processing starts upon receipt, counting starts 8pm 11/3.
Michigan: Processing starts 11/2 "in cities and townships with at least 25,000 people", 11/3 elsewhere. Counting starts 11/3.
Minnesota: Processing started 10/27, Counting starts 8pm 11/3.
Mississippi: Processing starts 7am 11/3, counting starts 7pm 11/3.
Missouri: Processing starts 10/29, counting starts 7pm 11/3.
Montana: Processing starts upon receipt, counting starts 11/2.
Nebraska: Processing started 10/26, counting starts 8am CST 11/2.
Nevada: Processing starts upon receipt, counting starts 10/19.
New Hampshire: Processing starts 1pm 11/3, counting starts after close of polls on 11/3.
New Jersey: Processing starts upon receipt, counting started 10/24.
New Mexico: Processing started 10/20, counting started 10/20.
New York: Processing starts 11/3, counting starts 9pm 11/3.
North Carolina: Processing date not specified by law, counting started 10/20.
North Dakota: Processing starts 11/2, counting starts after close of polls on 11/3.
Ohio: Processing date not specified by law, counting date not specified by law ("absentee ballots may be scanned prior to the election")
Oklahoma: Processing date not specified by law, counting date not specified by law ("prior to Election Day with approval by the secretary of the state election board")
Oregon: Processing started 10/27, counting started 10/27.
Pennsylvania: Processing starts 7am 11/3, counting starts 7am 11/3.
Rhode Island: Processing started 10/20, counting starts 8pm 11/3.
South Carolina: Processing starts 9am 11/2, counting starts 9am 11/3.
South Dakota: Processing date not specified by law, counting starts 7pm 11/3.
Tennessee: Processing starts upon receipt, counting starts 11/3.
Texas: Processing starts upon receipt, counting starts when polls open on 11/3, except in jurisdictions with more than 100,000 people in which case counting can begin at the end of the early voting period.
Utah: Neither processing or counting dates are specified by law.
Vermont: Processing starts 11/2, counting starts 11/2.
Virginia: Processing date not specified by law, counting starts 11/3.
Washington: Processing starts upon receipt, counting starts 8pm 11/3.
West Virginia: Processing starts 11/3, counting starts 11/3.
Wisconsin: Processing starts 7am 11/3, counting starts 7am 11/3.
Wyoming: Processing starts 11/3, counting starts 11/3.


Couple more takeaways:
1. Several states are well ahead of the game and should be sitting comfortably ready to report results on Election Night -- New Jersey, Montana, Oregon, Hawaii, Colorado, Arizona, Delaware, Florida for example.
2. Wisconsin and Pennsylvania are going to be an absolute shitshow. PA has already gotten back 1.7 million ballots out of 3 million requested, and they're going to have to wait till the morning of the election to even open the envelopes. WI has 1.1 million ballots returned of 1.78 million requested, same issue.
3. New York and Texas, although they have similarly draconian timelines, are less of a problem because far fewer people are using mail-in ballots there (422K requested in NY, 877K in Texas).
4. Although it seems like a lot of states are leaving themselves with very little time to do this, bear in mind that 2020 is an extraordinary election in a number of ways. Most states typically see absentee mail-in ballot counts that are 1/10th of the numbers they're seeing now.
 

[misko27]

West Virginia: Postmarked by/on 11/3, received by 11/9. Ballots with no postmark will be counted if received by 11/4, which seems suspicious as hell, but there's no chance in Hell West Virginia elects any Democrats anyways, so *shrug*

This is Joe Manchin erasure.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Thanks for taking the time to explain it. I'd argue it's a little overly idealistic (e.g. likelihood of good international treaties and strong unions) and as such would disagree on whether it'd be the best thing to implement domestically, but it's much more reasonable than I had first assumed. ("Balanced budget" proposals/requirements tend to be more restrictive than what you've described, for example.)

Main tricky part is actually getting to that balanced budget -- domestic discretionary spending (i.e. just about all agencies not counting Dept. of Defense) is only about 15% of federal spending; completely eliminating it (which would mean e.g. no State Department) alone wouldn't balance the budget.

Assuming you spin a lot of this down to the states, they both have more difficulty spending - thanks to a mix of state debt being hard to finance and balanced budget requirements - and more difficult revenue raising (e.g. 'race to the bottom' issues, state law/constitution requirements against raising taxes). Never know to you try, of course, but not sure how feasible it is. Despite all the talk, there isn't that much waste fraud and abuse in the federal government, at least compared to your average state/local government.

If you look at the overall Federal budget, a large chunk of it is a case of Mandatory spending from Social Security/Medicare that would be brought down to the state rather than federal level.

I'll admit that the end point there is a bit on the wishful side, so I'm honestly willing to meet things not all the way there with Interstate Compacts being made easier to make by not being able to effectively roadblocked via congress, and for a lot of stuff the Federal level's picked up returned to the State or lower levels.  Both to make them a bit more accountable because it is a hell of a lot easier for someone to get to their state capitol compared to D.C. if you aren't in Maryland or Virginia, and to help reduce the annoying as hell laser focus the news has on the national level because of how much power there's been.  Almost in favor of state-level BBC equivalents who focus only on what goes on in state with how bad that's gotten.

Edit: Hell, just think back.  When was the last time you looked at your state-level politics when not related to national-level?  Bet its been awhile.  Welcome to sheer scale of the Federal.

[RedKing]

West Virginia: Postmarked by/on 11/3, received by 11/9. Ballots with no postmark will be counted if received by 11/4, which seems suspicious as hell, but there's no chance in Hell West Virginia elects any Democrats anyways, so *shrug*

This is Joe Manchin erasure.

And no actual Democrats were harmed.

Edit: Hell, just think back.  When was the last time you looked at your state-level politics when not related to national-level?  Bet its been awhile.  Welcome to sheer scale of the Federal.

In the absence of Federal COVID-19 policy, *everyone* is looking at their state-level politics since it's the Governors who are driving the responses, and their state-level opposition that are opposing them.
Also state-level response to policing, Confederate memorials, protests, etc. Yes, those things affect most or all states, but if that's the criteria then everything important is by definition, national-level (education, taxation, public safety, government accountability, agriculture, etc.)

Additionally, in NC there's been plenty of state politics to focus on the last couple of years regarding gerrymandering. I can assure you, I know precisely which members of the state legislature I would like to feed headfirst into a wood chipper, and they're not nationally known.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

In the absence of Federal COVID-19 policy, *everyone* is looking at their state-level politics since it's the Governors who are driving the responses, and their state-level opposition that are opposing them.
Also state-level response to policing, Confederate memorials, protests, etc. Yes, those things affect most or all states, but if that's the criteria then everything important is by definition, national-level (education, taxation, public safety, government accountability, agriculture, etc.)

Additionally, in NC there's been plenty of state politics to focus on the last couple of years regarding gerrymandering. I can assure you, I know precisely which members of the state legislature I would like to feed headfirst into a wood chipper, and they're not nationally known.

Reread what I said.  Not related to the national-level.  Covid doesn't count as you expressly stated that it is due to the absence of Federal level policy in regards to that.  And with policing/memorials/protests, those are a side effect of an out-of-state trigger, not an in-state one outside of a few areas.

The gerrymandering in NC is state-level in the sense I was referring.

[RedKing]

In the absence of Federal COVID-19 policy, *everyone* is looking at their state-level politics since it's the Governors who are driving the responses, and their state-level opposition that are opposing them.
Also state-level response to policing, Confederate memorials, protests, etc. Yes, those things affect most or all states, but if that's the criteria then everything important is by definition, national-level (education, taxation, public safety, government accountability, agriculture, etc.)

Additionally, in NC there's been plenty of state politics to focus on the last couple of years regarding gerrymandering. I can assure you, I know precisely which members of the state legislature I would like to feed headfirst into a wood chipper, and they're not nationally known.

Reread what I said.  Not related to the national-level.  Covid doesn't count as you expressly stated that it is due to the absence of Federal level policy in regards to that.  And with policing/memorials/protests, those are a side effect of an out-of-state trigger, not an in-state one outside of a few areas.

The gerrymandering in NC is state-level in the sense I was referring.

And I anticipated that response, in fact I literally specified in my response that if you're casting your net that wide, *everything* is national-level. Hell, even gerrymandering is a national problem, not uniquely constrained to North Carolina. If that's your criteria, state-level politics is shit like "Should we declare war on Lesser Carolina for putting mustard on their barbecue?" (The answer is no, btw. But I would support a border wall. When the Palmetto State sends its people here, they're not sending their best. They're Clemson fans, they're Gamecocks, they're bringing crime and mustard-based barbecue. And some, I'm sure, are good people.)

[Dostoevsky]

If you look at the overall Federal budget, a large chunk of it is a case of Mandatory spending from Social Security/Medicare that would be brought down to the state rather than federal level.

But how are the states going to pay for it, is my question. Are you assuming a lot of savings from turning them into state-led programs, lower benefits, or something else?

I'll admit that the end point there is a bit on the wishful side, so I'm honestly willing to meet things not all the way there with Interstate Compacts being made easier to make by not being able to effectively roadblocked via congress, and for a lot of stuff the Federal level's picked up returned to the State or lower levels.  Both to make them a bit more accountable because it is a hell of a lot easier for someone to get to their state capitol compared to D.C. if you aren't in Maryland or Virginia, and to help reduce the annoying as hell laser focus the news has on the national level because of how much power there's been.  Almost in favor of state-level BBC equivalents who focus only on what goes on in state with how bad that's gotten.

It's actually a bit of a strong assumption that it's easier to get more accountability at the state level - this really depends state to state, with some being laughably corrupt and awful while others have far better accountability laws than the federal system.

In theory our system of policy/lobbying/advocacy organizations is meant to help address the difficulty in getting there in person, though obviously there are plenty of problems that need to be worked out within that system. (That said, you don't actually need to get there in person - especially in these COVID times.)

EDIT: Two more (related) points here - the risks of 'race to the bottom' dynamics between states, and the greater susceptibility to corruption at the state level. From my experience working in state politics (and working with those who do, which is much of the source of this), it's much easier to get an 800-lb gorilla 'job creator' situation in state politics than federal. In my field this is often a utility problem (most recently Ohio's massive First Energy scandal).

Edit: Hell, just think back.  When was the last time you looked at your state-level politics when not related to national-level?  Bet its been awhile.  Welcome to sheer scale of the Federal.

My day job is literally federal politics, so I'm probably not the typical response, but it does happen from time to time - e.g. the local infrastructure boondoggles (we've had two big ones in the past several years). I also make sure to research up the state/county ballot questions. But I admit I don't keep careful track of my state legislature goings-on.

[RedKing]

In my field this is often a utility problem (most recently Ohio's massive First Energy scandal).

Fun fact: from around April 2019 to around July of this year, I was intimately involved in the IT disentanglement of Energy Harbor from FirstEnergy. Even without having true insider knowledge, I could tell those people were shady as fuck.

[Dostoevsky]

Fun fact: from around April 2019 to around July of this year, I was intimately involved in the IT disentanglement of Energy Harbor from FirstEnergy. Even without having true insider knowledge, I could tell those people were shady as fuck.

I doubt they came up with it, but I had a colleague who joked about how the "Old Dominion" state was named after the utility, not the other way around. The utility determines how both the legislative and executive branch there acts with regards to energy issues; if Dominion changes its mind you often see sudden totally-unrelated movement in the government. (Trump has admittedly messed with that dynamic a bit, in a sadly amusing way.)

[Frumple]

If you look at the overall Federal budget, a large chunk of it is a case of Mandatory spending from Social Security/Medicare that would be brought down to the state rather than federal level.

But how are the states going to pay for it, is my question. Are you assuming a lot of savings from turning them into state-led programs, lower benefits, or something else?

Lots of them mostly wouldn't. Pay for it, that is. Real question is whether the subsequent "lots of people die or suffer crippling medical complications" due to loss of benefits or access outright is considered a feature or a bug by the folks making the proposition. Least most of the ones I've encountered consider the worse off folks ending up dead or even more miserable to be more feature than anything, so...

'Course, the same thing applies to all the things beyond healthcare and elder support the fed provides to the varying extents it does. The general idea encounters a nasty reality when you consider more than one or two states in the US would fail and fail hard without the amount of federal support they get, heh.

Which, I guess if you want to see the US cracked open like an egg and scrambled to shit, that might be a desirable end goal. Shame about all the people that'd have to live through it, for however long they do.

[hector13]

Groovy. Wisconsin, if you're voting absentee, you need that ballot in like NOW, if it takes up to seven days to get in the hands of a ballot counter. Would fully recommend drop-off boxes if you no longer trust the post.

Hmm, maybe we don't need election day to be a holiday if early voting is such a strong requirement to avoid such nincompoopery, eh?

Yeah I heard that on the news. Apparently there are 320k absentee ballots not yet returned, today (a week before the election) is the last day to try posting it, otherwise look for an alternative means of return like going to your local county clerks office or finding a secure drop box in your area.

[RedKing]

Groovy. Wisconsin, if you're voting absentee, you need that ballot in like NOW, if it takes up to seven days to get in the hands of a ballot counter. Would fully recommend drop-off boxes if you no longer trust the post.

Hmm, maybe we don't need election day to be a holiday if early voting is such a strong requirement to avoid such nincompoopery, eh?

Yeah I heard that on the news. Apparently there are 320k absentee ballots not yet returned, today (a week before the election) is the last day to try posting it, otherwise look for an alternative means of return like going to your local county clerks office or finding a secure drop box in your area.

I'm actually expecting about 25-30% of mail-in ballots to go unreturned. About half of that will be people who just "oops, somehow forgot there was an election" and the other half people who decided they didn't trust that their ballot would get counted/received and so voted in-person instead. I never requested an absentee ballot specifically because I was in the latter camp and planned to vote early well before early voting even started. From the look of things, I'd say that was also true of a lot of Texans and Georgians.

[Starver]

[...]as well as the emerging field of Information Security (ie. Cyberwarfare)

I just want to say that if you think that's an emerging field, I'm afraid you're too late to the party. Not the only one, and of course there's probably much more development of that game in the future, but...

[Max™]

Omaha, somewhere in middle America
Got left by Trump at midnight
It's dropped well below zero (C°)
I think we better turn our ballots in
And kick his stupid ass out the door

https://twitter.com/jeffzeleny/status/1321291021146357767

[Starver]

By my reading of it, they set up a park'n'ride a few miles away from the actual event stand, got the people bussed to it, had the rally and... not thought to arranged for the same amount of bussing back. Whether that was sheer quantity of vehicles or multiple runs, details are vague on what happened on the inward journey, but even if some drivers were only booked for early, they had some (initially) around for late.

(Added complications of biosafety aside, as obviously many people had already put them, that shows classic Trump planning. He got his crowd, and maybe they'd already voted too, so not his problem any more.)