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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 4228416 times)

Reelya

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38955 on: August 30, 2020, 11:22:03 pm »

Wow, that's bad. Minimum wage here is $19.84 per hour (in Australian dollars however), 38 hour week, with 4 weeks paid vacation per year and 10 sick days as standard. that works out at about $US 30000 a year for minimum wage here.

EDIT: And I guess I don't need to add the free health cover even if you lose your job, and unemployment paying $AUD 340 a week :/

EDIT2: Also I really shouldn't add the fact that our employers are required to add 9% on top of whatever we're being paid into a locked savings account for us for retirement, and that they're increasing that to 12%.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2020, 11:28:33 pm by Reelya »
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38956 on: August 30, 2020, 11:23:29 pm »

single
Nobody who's not a conservative complains about this?

wierd, the reason you're single is raising your power level, you gotta shake the salt if you want to survive on hell twitter.

I will not be answering questions on what "shake the salt" means.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
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No Gods, No Masters.

wierd

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38957 on: August 31, 2020, 12:01:46 am »

Clarification:

I see, and agree that I am not really symptomatic of the current set of problems.  This is central to my point.

Rather, I see the rise in "Pro racist, Pro Nazi" rhetoric, the resulting rise in race-tension, and the politicized (and altogether unrealistic) notion that "Single white male == Rich prettyboy Chad who doesn't know poverty, that is systemically racist and needs to shut the fuck up", and I worry about the future.

Specifically--

Nazi's gain further inroads, civil tensions break out into outright race conflict in truly enormous degrees. Irrational and systemic hatred becomes endemic on both sides.

BECAUSE I am quite literally just in the state of "Single" because I am asexual, and "white" as a consequence of circumstances that lead to my birth (and as demonstrated, this whiteness has in no demonstrable way, given me supreme privilege or elevated me out of the grasp of sudden poverty), and in no way want anyone of any color to suffer any kind of issue for their own such status-- I am very much not enthused by this set of events, and the direction of current national politics.

Nazis win:  I get to experience being poor, along with the racially disenfranchised, and dont get the benefit of at least being friends with the people that in all ways that actually matter, are my peers, because I am the wrong color, and assumed to be Nazi.  Further, because the Nazis are totally pro "Fuck those other people that aren't like us, we will ramrod in favoritist bullshit-- AND HOW DARE YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT IT! YOU INGRATE!", I get to not only have no choice but to profit from their heinous acts, but get told to shut up and like it.

Nazis cause political explosion that leads to their sharp removal, but not before causing severe problems:  I get to be lumped in, categorically, with the truly reprehensible people that think that being white makes you a demigod that gets to abuse other people.  (note, the rhetoric is NEVER "Racist fuckwits", it is "Single white males" et al.) Once again, getting me nothing but shade for my set of circumstances.

Dangerous populist shift toward minority-centric pandering:  I am the wrong skin color, despite still being borderline poverty, so no support for me--


ETC.


There really is a problem with the "Single white male" stereotype:  It usually doesn't fit.


It most certainly does not fit for me.  I have much more in common with near-poverty mexican people than I do those assfucks with daddy in the country club, and who were born with a golden parachute as a nappy.

« Last Edit: August 31, 2020, 12:09:31 am by wierd »
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Reelya

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38958 on: August 31, 2020, 12:16:48 am »

I think you mean straight white male there, which is the trope.

EDIT, was poking around some random articles:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: August 31, 2020, 12:30:08 am by Reelya »
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wierd

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38959 on: August 31, 2020, 12:18:39 am »

Te rhetoric is single white male.

My "technically-nonbinary (but not in the way you think)" status does not get mention.
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Reelya

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38960 on: August 31, 2020, 12:32:06 am »

Who's rhetoric exactly? Other than related to dating blogs etc scene I haven't read anyone specifying singleness as being a specific privilege-related issue.

wierd

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38961 on: August 31, 2020, 12:49:02 am »

The american political zeitgeist's

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wierd

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38962 on: August 31, 2020, 02:27:55 am »

Speaking of "Pro racist, pro nazi" resulting in increased racial tension..

https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/08/30/907699226/1-killed-in-portland-amid-clashes-between-pro-trump-caravan-and-counterprotester



This is something that does not need to happen, should not be happening, and I am disturbed that people feel it does.  People are just people, stop fixating on something as trivially stupid as what color he skin is.


The more alarming thing yet, is the Pro Trump part.
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scriver

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38963 on: August 31, 2020, 03:05:19 am »

I think you mean straight white male there, which is the trope.

EDIT, was poking around some random articles:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

To be fair. If the results of one test goes against the results of a lot of tests. It makes sense to test the test.
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Love, scriver~

SOLDIER First

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38964 on: August 31, 2020, 04:22:45 am »

COVID was engineered by the USA, now?  :o   
trump and his lack of action is why we lost so many jobs

most of this
a few things: the trope is indeed "cis/het white male". being single is a possible and somewhat humorous addition to the trope that worsens the entitlement such people have and the misogyny they tend to exude, but it's not mandatory. being cisgendered and heterosexual both are, however. and since you're neither cis nor het by your own admission, not only does the stereotype not apply to you, you are infinitely more likely to be targeted by the nazis in the looming neo-nazi takeover of the united states (which is a phrase i use with absolutely deadly sincerity) than you are at all by any sort of minority group for nearly any reason.

also, you will never, ever, EVER be lumped in with neo-nazis and fascists just for being Le White Man by any person who is actually anti-nazi and concerned about civil rights. "all white dudes are automatically racist and terrible and secret nazis" is not a statement that civil rights activists, trans rights activists, black lives matter activists, etc, who are the people probably most likely to make such statements if the nazi expulsion you described occurs, will ever make, both because they do not believe it and because it is untrue. if anything, the fact that you think you're going to be targeted for your whiteness and maleness would be worse to them, because white supremacists think the exact same thing. "all white people and especially white men benefit from privilege granted to them by racism" is more accurate and something they are more likely to say, because they already do.

i will pause here to clarify that i do not believe you are a white supremacist and i am not intending to imply that you are a white supremacist just because you think this, but the fact remains that this is part of white supremacist rhetoric.

...a "dangerous populist shift toward minority-pandering" will never happen and coincidentally also happens to be another thing that white supremacists think. racism doesn't go both ways; minorities are not going to flip the switch and start oppressing the damn crackers for our mayonnaise-like pallor. like, frankly, this is a little stupid.
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Black lives matter.

Max™

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voliol

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38966 on: August 31, 2020, 05:46:45 am »

One populist shift towards minority-"pandering" comes to mind, namely the "washing" kind, e.g. rainbow-washing. These are fake by nature though, as a rainbow shirt or logo doesn't really correspond to helping LGBT+ people in any tangible way, or giving them any privileges, thus making the alt-right argument null. And even if there is a populist shift towards "pandering" to minorities, it being "dangerous" is rather silly; minorities are in a vulnerable position by nature of being minorities, and if that can be balanced out by over-representation in media (if that is what it is) isn't that great?

(Never mind whitewashing, and that media tends to follow concurrent societal/political trends to maximize profit. Nazi Germany had plenty of nazi-washing, if I recall correctly.)

wierd

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38967 on: August 31, 2020, 05:50:45 am »

COVID was engineered by the USA, now?  :o   
trump and his lack of action is why we lost so many jobs

most of this
a few things: the trope is indeed "cis/het white male". being single is a possible and somewhat humorous addition to the trope that worsens the entitlement such people have and the misogyny they tend to exude, but it's not mandatory. being cisgendered and heterosexual both are, however. and since you're neither cis nor het by your own admission, not only does the stereotype not apply to you, you are infinitely more likely to be targeted by the nazis in the looming neo-nazi takeover of the united states (which is a phrase i use with absolutely deadly sincerity) than you are at all by any sort of minority group for nearly any reason.

also, you will never, ever, EVER be lumped in with neo-nazis and fascists just for being Le White Man by any person who is actually anti-nazi and concerned about civil rights. "all white dudes are automatically racist and terrible and secret nazis" is not a statement that civil rights activists, trans rights activists, black lives matter activists, etc, who are the people probably most likely to make such statements if the nazi expulsion you described occurs, will ever make, both because they do not believe it and because it is untrue. if anything, the fact that you think you're going to be targeted for your whiteness and maleness would be worse to them, because white supremacists think the exact same thing. "all white people and especially white men benefit from privilege granted to them by racism" is more accurate and something they are more likely to say, because they already do.

i will pause here to clarify that i do not believe you are a white supremacist and i am not intending to imply that you are a white supremacist just because you think this, but the fact remains that this is part of white supremacist rhetoric.

...a "dangerous populist shift toward minority-pandering" will never happen and coincidentally also happens to be another thing that white supremacists think. racism doesn't go both ways; minorities are not going to flip the switch and start oppressing the damn crackers for our mayonnaise-like pallor. like, frankly, this is a little stupid.

it's not the activists I am worried about.  You are quite correct that they understand the difference.

As for the "Dont flip the switch", you are incorrect-- I have indeed experienced direct racism from minorities, just for being white.  It is real. I have experienced it.

That is why the rhetoric is indeed dangerous from the supremacists-- it is not entirely wrong;  it is human nature to treat the "in crowd" better than the "out crowd."  It takes conscious effort to not do so, and most people are not willing to invest that, because you have to actually think about what you are doing, and why.  Most people simply don't do that, regardless of what group you come from.  It's just the way humans tend toward operating. (The more extreme form of it, is exactly what underlies the uncanny valley.  Racism happens at the edge of it-- the out-group is just a teeny bit different, rather than sufficiently alien to illicit strong repulsion straight up.)

The danger, is exactly because people do not think about this-- actually think about this.  They seem to always just REACT to this.  The supremacists react with fear and thus with violence.  The oppressed react with suspicion and anger, which leads to ostracism, and thus to systemic disadvantage. Both are immediate reactions, rather than what is needed-- Actually evaluating, and suppressing impulsive behaviors.

The what is not grounds to fail to evaluate the why.  I have already personally experienced such things.  It is not unreasonable at all to worry about it increasing, as civic order breaks down; what is under the surface, will come out.

I just do not fear what the supremacists are ACTUALLY worried about-- Not being on top.  I have never been on top, it is not a fear I have.  I am fearful of being sidelined to the point that I don't matter in any conversation; See also, the "Generic white guy" rhetoric above.  "Not an important group, so not important" == "No platform", and thus "no representation."  It does not help matters that the FUCKING NAZIS want to be the group that offers that platforming.  (The fucking LAST people I want representing me, and my interests, ARE THOSE FUCKING CUNTS.)

I am of the opinion that the color of your fucking skin is completely and totally irrelevant to anything whatsoever, except maybe how likely you are to get a sunburn.   Do you live near the poverty line?  THEN HERE'S ASSISTANCE.  Gender, Race, Religious affiliation-- DOES NOT FUCKING MATTER-- Being near the poverty line is what fucking matters.  Society needs to stop getting distracted from superficial bullshit, and focus on what is actually causing harm-- BEING IMPOVERISHED. 

That does not mean I think racism does not exist-- As I clearly pointed out, I do NOT believe that-- as I have personally experienced the reverse form of it.  What I point out, is that racism IS A FUCKING STUPID IMPULSIVE REACTION, that you should NOT allow to color your decision making, ON ANYTHING.

Denial that people DO allow it, in either direction, is how it continues to persist-- not how you remove it from the situation. 
« Last Edit: August 31, 2020, 06:04:07 am by wierd »
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JoshuaFH

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38968 on: August 31, 2020, 07:28:24 am »

I'm reminded of Peter Drucker's book Adventures of a Bystander, particularly the last chapter: The Indian Summer of Innocence. It describes the social climate in the New Deal years, when Drucker had emigrated from Europe to America. There, who you were was far more important than anything else about you, creating a society that was delineated into tribes of race and religion. I mean, even more so than today. I'm paraphrasing from memory: A tragedy like the Depression was just an natural event that was indiscriminate in the harm it did, and so in that sense equalized people, but that drove people to band together on the only criteria that was discernible and irrevocable: one's race or religion.

Tribalism may simply be the instinctive response to insecurity or hardship. The more hopeless the future looks, the more one might cling to the seemingly tangible lies of fascist propaganda.
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SalmonGod

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38969 on: August 31, 2020, 10:28:10 am »

https://eand.co/we-dont-know-how-to-warn-you-any-harder-america-is-dying-26ff80912391?gi=1871db38b54d

I cannot tell you how crushingly depressing it is to be bombarded daily with so many messages from so many people expressing this form of alarmism, and every single one seeming to believe that the things they're alarmed about began with and are a result of Trump himself.

It makes me quite sure that things are going to continue to get worse.  Trump may lose in November.  But things will still continue to get worse.  None of this began with Trump, and will not end with him, either.  If we want anything to get better, we have to face that.
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Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.
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