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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 4226561 times)

WealthyRadish

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38820 on: August 20, 2020, 09:14:48 pm »

Just an observation, but it's very peculiar how ancaps keep getting mistaken for racists. There's a very clear line between being some sort of bigot and merely doing things like advocating social darwinism, celebrating the deaths of undesirables by terrible diseases, and mixing in some bizarre comments about "race science".
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Naturegirl1999

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38821 on: August 20, 2020, 09:19:07 pm »

Correct me if I’m wrong, but from my understanding ancaps want the world to be ruled by companies instead of governments, isn’t that already happening? Albeit in an indirect way?
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Maximum Spin

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38822 on: August 20, 2020, 09:19:38 pm »

Thinking this over, the most likely answer that comes to mind is that the guy is upset that I gave FBI statistics on crime victimization to someone who asked about gang violence by race a little bit ago. I do often hear this thing from, well, predominantly white people with badly-suppressed racism they're projecting that it's racist to know statistics because it might give people the impression that blacks are somehow inherently criminals. The fact that this viewpoint itself assumes that the only possible interpretation can be some kind of racial criminality factor is... telling, in my opinion. The underlying belief seems to be that we should only support racial equality if people are already equal, instead of (in my view) racial equality being necessary because people are not yet being allowed to be equal.

Oh, someone new came in and projected at me while I was typing. Didn't do any of those things, you know. And who said anything about "-cap"?
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hector13

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38823 on: August 20, 2020, 09:22:08 pm »

This might get out of hand. *would grab popcorn but sleeping*

I am fully expecting someone to be banned when I wake up in the morning, don’t disappoint me please.
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Look, we need to raise a psychopath who will murder God, we have no time to be spending on cooking.

the way your fingertips plant meaningless soliloquies makes me think you are the true evil among us.

martinuzz

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38824 on: August 20, 2020, 09:23:27 pm »

Never heard of 'ancap'
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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

Naturegirl1999

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38825 on: August 20, 2020, 09:24:55 pm »

I’m guessing whether or not people commit crimes could be because of poverty, if you can’t afford food, you have to steal it kind of thing, and unfortunately, PoC live in higher rates of poverty.

Disclaimer: these are just my thoughts, I’m not claiming I’m right, or that this is the only factor
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martinuzz

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38826 on: August 20, 2020, 09:25:59 pm »

Basically, yes, you are right there, Naturegirl.
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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38827 on: August 20, 2020, 09:32:27 pm »

There are lots of other factors that go into it too, though. For example, one I like to remind people of is that gangs provide protection in many places where the police are unwilling to and/or actively malicious; we saw this just lately when various gangs protected many areas against riot agitators.
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Reelya

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38828 on: August 20, 2020, 09:43:04 pm »

Correct me if I’m wrong, but from my understanding ancaps want the world to be ruled by companies instead of governments, isn’t that already happening? Albeit in an indirect way?

Well what they want and what would happen if they implemented their proposals aren't necessarily the same.

As far as I'm aware, though I don't frequent many places where Anarcho-capitalists and/or Libertarians discuss stuff, they generally argue that many of the ills of capitalism come from corporatism and/or regulatory capture, and that diminishing the role of the state will weaken these things.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture

The anarcho-capitalist idea naively believes that if you get rid of regulators then everything will, by 'natural law', become a level playing field of men trading with men (and it's almost always men who are advocates) as free equals. There are definite reasons for a lot of these ideologies where almost all of the proponents are men - they tend to focus on the individual and you sink or swim based on merit, starving to death if you're not worthy of competing. Women generally seem to value stability (risk adverse vs risk-taking), and they can see how unstable such a society would actually be: these individualist ideologies are at their weakest when explaining how we can ensure the next generation of children grow up to be good citizens: you either starve to death or thrive purely based on 'parent lotto' that you lucked out and had good parents, and with the social safety net being seen as an evil thing to be abolished. Women, who are more subject to unavoidable financial ups and downs (such as having a kid, single mother etc) generally don't find this "work or starve" philosophy quite so appealing. I think about half the total women into this stuff are employed as media pundits of various types.

You can argue against Anarcho-Capitalism from a Historical Materialism perspective: political power flows from the economic status quo. What that suggests is that if you actually abolished the state and it's role in corporatism, then the corporations would form something else to fill the role of the state, which is itself just a reflection of the economic status quo. And we have a name for that "The Cartel".

So those are my major criticisms of Anarcho-Capitalism; the lack of any mechanism for preventing the formation of The Cartel, the lack of acknowledgement of differentials in economic bargaining power, and the lack of acknowledgement of the effect of forces beyond the individual's control on their own economic success: "I pulled myself up by my bootstraps, so if you won't do the same, why should we allow you to have shoes?"

Anarch-Syndicalism on the other hand does have explicit mechanisms to prevent a cartel from forming: form your own cartel. From the Historical Materialism perspective, you can state that there will always be a political "shadow" of whatever economic relations exist, you can't just have a vacuum there, so any proposed system must have proposed mechanisms to fill that void.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2020, 10:06:24 pm by Reelya »
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Eschar

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38829 on: August 20, 2020, 10:33:09 pm »

Plus, anarcho-syndicalists don't accept the authority of swords fished out of lakes.
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Reelya

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38830 on: August 20, 2020, 10:50:42 pm »

That depends on whether they're lobbed by a watery tart.

Naturegirl1999

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38831 on: August 20, 2020, 10:55:52 pm »

How would being hit by a food item affect someone’s respect to aquatic swords? I am missing something, there is a joke here that I’m not finding
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Maximum Spin

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38832 on: August 20, 2020, 10:58:23 pm »

They're quoting a movie.
And the watery tart isn't a food item, it's the Lady of the Lake.
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Yoink

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38833 on: August 20, 2020, 10:59:50 pm »

"Tart" is the equivalent of "thot" in olde world speake.   
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you need to reconsider your life
If there's any cause worth dying for, it's memes.

delphonso

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38834 on: August 20, 2020, 11:11:34 pm »

"Tart" is the equivalent of "thot" in olde world speake.   

This quote turned my day around. Thank you, Yoink.
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