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[wierd]

Instead of going after the guns and not the stupidiology, it really should be the other way around.

Take a clue from germany vis-a-vis naziism. Make the advocation of that shit so illegal it makes people shit themselves.

the real problem with say, this recent headline, is not the gun. It's that somebody felt they were morally and magically superior and above the law, and used a deadly weapon to substantiate that opinion. Eg, "macho with gun"-ism.

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/calvin-munerlyn-michigan-security-guard-shot-dead-family-dollar-face-mask/

It could have been a switchblade or other weapon. The isdue is allowing people to be manipulated en mass into believing that they are above civil requirements. That means taking the NRA to task for the groups it funds and the messages it spreads. Go after the stupid. Its the real problem. Gun availability is just a catalyst.

[McTraveller]

Exactly... I don't even know where that worldview originates that makes it even a mental option to just go attack someone who did something that offended you.  It must have very tight geographical or social confinement... because it's definitely not "everywhere" in the US (Despite what the media would have you believe).

It's definitely not the "do unto others as you'd have them to do to you" or "love your neighbor" worldview.  It's not even "work hard and do the best for yourself."  I honestly don't know where it comes from.   But I don't watch broadcast or cable TV, so maybe it's there and I just am isolated?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I believe you're looking for "you don't tell me what to do, servant", and it's absolutely endemic in the US.

[Doomblade187]

It's part of the US having a rather toxic culture of "gotta be strong and independent, people telling you what to do is oppression always". I agree with MSH, it's quite endemic, even though those who cause issues are a minority.

[Iduno]

even though pretty much nobody thinks that the proposed bans would have affected the majority of the incidents in any way.

Pretty much nobody thinks that banning guns affects most types of gun violence?

okay..

I think the original discussion was Shonus not thinking that a mass of people being shot is a mass shooting unless a certain percent of them died or something. The suggestion was stupid, so I just moved on.

[Lord Shonus]

Every reputable organization, including most gun control organizations, sets the criteria to be:

One shooter
3+ or 4+ killed, not including the shooter
Not related to an act of terrorism or a state of war
Unrelated to any other criminal activity


This has been the criteria for over twenty years, and is the international standard. The only groups that are pushing for the loose definition are those that want to give political candidates a big scary number to proclaim.

[Max™]

I mean... I know terrorism is politics by other means, just as war is diplomacy by other means, and I'd hate to ask anyone to try to get into the mindset of the stupid cunts doing these things to discern what political motivations might be present, but unloading ammo into large crowds definitely seems designed to incite terror, and the reaction of metal detectors at schools, music festivals, and various other locations where crowds might gather seems like a response to terrorism.

I'm sure the NRA would chime in and start jumping up and down on any suggestion that mass shootings are terrorism, but wouldn't that just make them supporters of terrorism?

[Lord Shonus]

Many mass shootings are terrorism, but historically aren't labeled as such because linking murder to a cause has a tendency to legitimize it.

Others, however, are just violent outbursts with no . Some are sparked by economic worry, others by pure rage. The only really solid common vector is media contagion - there's documented evidence that such incidents go way up when the 24-hour media is going on and on about it, and go way, way down when the media is occupied with something else - despite a sharp upward trend in the 90s there were very few incidents between September 2001 and 2015 - I only remember one prominent incident in that entire timespan. This is almost certainly because the media started focusing entirely on 9/11 and the aftermath.

A stronger safety net and de-stigmatizing treatment for anger issues or depression would almost certainly be the most effective way to address the problem.

[Frumple]

Well, most effective after removing guns from the population. It's been noted, repeatedly, that for all the good psych help would do it's significantly fucking unlikely to do sod all about mass murder. It's just pretty bloody rare there's chance or grounds to catch something like that before it hatches on the psych care side of things.

Better safety nets would probably help more on that front between the two, just, y'know. Not as much as just getting guns out of the goddamn population. Might be more feasible in the relatively short term, but I'unno. Depends on if the GOP goes and fucking dies sometime in the near future or not, and less of our political system becomes virulently opposed to the general population becoming less miserable.

[wierd]

Lord Farquaad has made the official pronouncement.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/05/06/coronavirus-update-us/

[Reelya]

Every reputable organization, including most gun control organizations, sets the criteria to be:

One shooter
3+ or 4+ killed, not including the shooter
Not related to an act of terrorism or a state of war
Unrelated to any other criminal activity


This has been the criteria for over twenty years, and is the international standard. The only groups that are pushing for the loose definition are those that want to give political candidates a big scary number to proclaim.

Yeah, it's still sketchy to hand-wave away all those shootings because of a definition. That as you wrote it is specifically the FBI definition of mass-murder. They don't have any definition of the term mass shooting whatsover. Sometimes some reports have used it a synonym and others have not. But the point is if you're pulling a "definitions matter" thing, then the difference in wording also matters. Is a "shooting" and a "murder" exactly the same thing now? It seems a bit rich to label politicians liars because they defined "shooting" as "someone getting shot".

If we say that 273 shooting incidents happened in a year where 4+ people got shot per incident, and we refer to that as a "mass shooting" then it's not actually making it any less by saying that it's wrong to call them "mass shootings" therefore the topic doesn't deserve further discussion. Those incidents still happened, according to the criteria given.

Also, it makes little sense to whittle that down further by saying if they were gang members or it was crime-related they don't count either. All those things are part and parcel of America's gun problem.
Why would it make any sense that when talking about gun legislation you don't include crime-related stuff in there? So it only counts as gun crime now if someone loses it for completely baffling reasons or something.

So it's easy to whittle down the definition as much as possible, say that only 2 people a year count as "mass shooters" then point out how such-and-such legislation wouldn't have stopped those specific two people getting guns, so the legislation is useless. But that's only because we narrowed the definition so much that it missed all the actual effects of the legislation.

[martinuzz]

Lord Farquaad has made the official pronouncement.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/05/06/coronavirus-update-us/

How do I un-paywall that link?

[wierd]

Lord Farquaad has made the official pronouncement.

(Image Snip)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/05/06/coronavirus-update-us/

How do I un-paywall that link?

https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-chrome
https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-firefox

Pick a poison, install the extension. Enjoy giving the finger to paywalls on a dozen or more news sites.

[martinuzz]

Long live freedom of information!

[LordBaal]

Long live wierd!