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[McTraveller]

To be fair, we also have to have at least a little grit and not be overly-sensitive to any words.  Otherwise we end up in situations where you start basically throttling communication in general.

By "grit" I mean having a thick enough skin to be able to ignore 90% of the "offensive" stuff that comes your way.  Yes there is probably that 10% of stuff that is truly abuse that you should not ignore, but I swear, at least half the stuff people whine about these days is basically "really, you couldn't just ignore that?"

I think half the power people exert today is because everyone is so hyper-reactive that they the people in power can easily manipulate individuals and masses by saying something related to a hot-button topic.  And on the flip side we have this crazy mix of social media where if you are the general public you can say whatever you want but if you are a celebrity or pundit or whatever and you say something off the cuff you are drawn and quartered for it.

No grit.... it's sad.

[nenjin]

There's a line beyond which "just having a thick skin" isn't the issue.

Again. We have actual examples of people who have been stripped of their humanity and decisions have been made with their lives on the basis of "they're not people, this isn't a problem."

I mean, by your logic, when a racist looks at a Jewish person and says "kill all the jews", whether that's serious or trolling, the person that's being leveled against is just supposed to have some "grit" in response to that?

[Naturegirl1999]

To be fair, we also have to have at least a little grit and not be overly-sensitive to any words.  Otherwise we end up in situations where you start basically throttling communication in general.

By "grit" I mean having a thick enough skin to be able to ignore 90% of the "offensive" stuff that comes your way.  Yes there is probably that 10% of stuff that is truly abuse that you should not ignore, but I swear, at least half the stuff people whine about these days is basically "really, you couldn't just ignore that?"

I think half the power people exert today is because everyone is so hyper-reactive that they the people in power can easily manipulate individuals and masses by saying something related to a hot-button topic.  And on the flip side we have this crazy mix of social media where if you are the general public you can say whatever you want but if you are a celebrity or pundit or whatever and you say something off the cuff you are drawn and quartered for it.

No grit.... it's sad.

I agree with this. Mental skin is important. Learning manipulation tricks is important too, so you can consciously try avoiding succumbing to them. Also, the reason words are a thing is to communicate meaning. Sometimes the same letters in the same places have different meanings based on the sets of letters around them.

There's a line beyond which "just having a thick skin" isn't the issue.

Again. We have actual examples of people who have been stripped of their humanity and decisions have been made with their lives on the basis of "they're not people, this isn't a problem."

I mean, by your logic, when a racist looks at a Jewish person and says "kill all the jews", whether that's serious or trolling, the person that's being leveled against is just supposed to have some "grit" in response to that?

i also agree that threats to kill should be taken seriously. If someone threatens to kill you, don;t wait for them to stab you before attempting retreat

[Doomblade187]

That said, it should be clear that harassment is never acceptable, as it is abuse.

[nenjin]

Calling someone sub-human garbage isn't a form of abuse? To me it's like, the ultimate form of abuse.

[Doomblade187]

Calling someone sub-human garbage isn't a form of abuse? To me it's like, the ultimate form of abuse.

But you see, they're not saying it to Biden. They're just venting in what they feel is a safe place to express their frustrations.

[Naturegirl1999]

That said, it should be clear that harassment is never acceptable, as it is abuse.

agreed

Calling someone sub-human garbage isn't a form of abuse? To me it's like, the ultimate form of abuse.

But you see, they're not saying it to Biden. They're just venting in what they feel is a safe place to express their frustrations.

I’ve heard of venting before. I don’t think I do it very often, which can be a good thing or a bad thing

[dragdeler]

-

[SalmonGod]

So frankly when people say one thing but want you to assume it means something else, 99% of the time they're full of shit. Say what you mean.

Ok... then then that reduces the range of acceptable language for this kind of thing to "I think X is a bad person".  "Piece of shit" certainly isn't on the table, because you're not meaning what you say.

[WealthyRadish]

I know this concern doesn't directly apply to this situation, but I think it's worth keeping in mind that ironically calling people subhumans has been part of the problem. Much of the alt-right started with apolitical people drawn in by innocuous pseudo-ironic far right memes and phrases (of the "remove kebab" type) and getting kicks from the people who "didn't get the joke". So much has been normalized in the last four years that it's hard not to think we should be a bit more careful.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

It's true, we need to be more careless with leftist memes instead, like burning the Constitution and crashing your boss' car into a lake.

[hector13]

I think it does have a pretty direct relation to what’s being discussed.

Words have meanings, use them responsibly.

[Rolan7]

Obvious hyperbole to loose steam is valid.  Nobody Exceptionally few people want to "eat the rich".  Certain rich people aren't literally bags of scum, but we can still call them scumbags - because what we obviously mean is that they're bad people.  Which itself actually just means that they have a habit of bad behavior - there is always time for redemption, particularly for those who have the power to make things better.

White-power dogwhistles and other Nazi maymays are the exact opposite.  They appear benign!  They, to use the secret phrase, "hide their power level".  They are dishonest and insidious mindviruses which promote xenophobia through repetition.  No one is bad just for repeating them.  They were crafted to be innocently repeated by good people.

Edit: Ah, that said, I'd shy away from calling for explicit harm here, even as hyperbole.  This is a particularly civil forum and we don't want to disturb the good Toad.

[nenjin]

I know this concern doesn't directly apply to this situation, but I think it's worth keeping in mind that ironically calling people subhumans has been part of the problem. Much of the alt-right started with apolitical people drawn in by innocuous pseudo-ironic far right memes and phrases (of the "remove kebab" type) and getting kicks from the people who "didn't get the joke". So much has been normalized in the last four years that it's hard not to think we should be a bit more careful.

I've watched this happen over the years to several of my friends. They went from consuming alt-right memes for the lels to parroting alt-right talking points. That's the thing with language vs. belief. It's insidious how it starts to slip in to your thinking. The more you start referring to people a certain way, the more likely it is it starts to define your actual internal dialog about them. There's plenty I hate about the right, but the line I won't cross is telling myself they're not human beings even as they embrace that ideology themselves about others. Once someone is no longer human to you, there's all kinds of awful things you can convince yourself it's ok to do to them.

So frankly when people say one thing but want you to assume it means something else, 99% of the time they're full of shit. Say what you mean.

Ok... then then that reduces the range of acceptable language for this kind of thing to "I think X is a bad person".  "Piece of shit" certainly isn't on the table, because you're not meaning what you say.

Fair enough. I'd rather not call people a piece of shit anymore than approve of calling anyone that pisses you off a sub-human piece of garbage.

Certain rich people aren't literally bags of scum, but we can still call them scumbags

IIRC, the origin of the word scumbag is actually a used condom.

[Naturegirl1999]

I think scum is like, small organisms that live on the water? Collections of zooplankton and phytoplankton?